Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:
Thanks Eagleye. Yours is an Alpha brain whereas I have to work hard at it.

Of course, that's assuming that the crew complement of a Shark will be fairly comparable to that of a Lenny?

But yes, they do need time to grow an Alpha officer corp and crew. Using the Sharks as live holotanks is genius. Alpha level genius -- or just plain born out of necessity. I guess 28 Sharks will also allow them to have their own version of wargames as well.

Again, thanks for the extra pair of alpha eyes.

In a way I suppose it mirrors the infancy of Alice Truman's wet-behind-the-ears original LAC wing, headed up by Tremaine.

Sigs wrote:If the MA builds the Sharks to be labour intensive(low automation) and the Lennys to be heavily automated the crew size could be the same regardless of the crew.

Sigs, that is brilliant. Of course it assumes that the normal operation of the Lennys can be highly automated. Or recommended.

One thing seems obvious. With over 60 % of the gene pool being slaves, their version of BuPers is going to have a hard time pulling personnel out of their version of "Caparelli's ass." LOL

Seriously, will slaves have a place aboard a warship? If captured, slavery will be exposed all over again. How educated are the slaves? Do they generally have the ability to serve on a warship?

runsforcelery wrote:Ah, the "genetic slaves" of Darius don't see themselves as genetic slaves at all.

Much like middle class America RFC? Sorry, I withdraw that comment Duckk! LOL


Peering closer at the slave lines...


There are several slave lines:

• C-line. Sex slaves. C-lines proved to be rather intelligent and independent compared to other lines. We know they can serve aboard ship as Paulo proves.
• D-line is a general utility line. Doesn't scream warship capable.
• E-line is another general utility line. Not much to see here either.
• F-line heavy manual labor. Possible grunts aboard ship.
• J-lines the most popular of Manpower's slave types, were bred to be technical workers, created with an emphasis on mental capability in mechanical things, as well as physical strength. Definitely warship material.
• V-lines were among the technical combat breeds, often trained in martial arts like coup de vitesse. There's potential there as well. Certainly as security.

cthia wrote:
Much like middle class America RFC? Sorry, I withdraw that comment Duckk! LOL


Peering closer at the slave lines...


There are several slave lines:

• C-line. Sex slaves. C-lines proved to be rather intelligent and independent compared to other lines. We know they can serve aboard ship as Paulo proves.
• D-line is a general utility line. Doesn't scream warship capable.
• E-line is another general utility line. Not much to see here either.
• F-line heavy manual labor. Possible grunts aboard ship.
• J-lines the most popular of Manpower's slave types, were bred to be technical workers, created with an emphasis on mental capability in mechanical things, as well as physical strength. Definitely warship material.
• V-lines were among the technical combat breeds, often trained in martial arts like coup de vitesse. There's potential there as well. Certainly as security.

Biological Survey Corps recruits ex-slaves they free and from reading the series they make out pretty well from that practice. Just because someone is a Gamma and another person is an Alpha doesn't mean that the Genetic Engineering can account for everything, maybe the Gamma gets higher intelligence and intuition for something the natural way? Or maybe the difference between a Gamma and an Alpha is just how much engineering they get... maybe the Alpha gets all of the little goodies but at the end of the day Nature also has a hand in the process.

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:
Thanks Eagleye. Yours is an Alpha brain whereas I have to work hard at it.

Of course, that's assuming that the crew complement of a Shark will be fairly comparable to that of a Lenny?

But yes, they do need time to grow an Alpha officer corp and crew. Using the Sharks as live holotanks is genius. Alpha level genius -- or just plain born out of necessity. I guess 28 Sharks will also allow them to have their own version of wargames as well.

Again, thanks for the extra pair of alpha eyes.

In a way I suppose it mirrors the infancy of Alice Truman's wet-behind-the-ears original LAC wing, headed up by Tremaine.

Sigs wrote:If the MA builds the Sharks to be labour intensive(low automation) and the Lennys to be heavily automated the crew size could be the same regardless of the crew.

Sigs, that is brilliant. Of course it assumes that the normal operation of the Lennys can be highly automated. Or recommended.

One thing seems obvious. With over 60 % of the gene pool being slaves, their version of BuPers is going to have a hard time pulling personnel out of their version of "Caparelli's ass." LOL

Seriously, will slaves have a place aboard a warship? If captured, slavery will be exposed all over again. How educated are the slaves? Do they generally have the ability to serve on a warship?

runsforcelery wrote:Ah, the "genetic slaves" of Darius don't see themselves as genetic slaves at all.

So they won't be screaming and kicking for liberation if captured and boarded by the enemy. That does make a difference. However, I was under the impression that the slaves feel that way because their existence is all they know, have known. They haven't been exposed to anything else under the sun to know the difference. You can't miss what you've never had or know exists. Placing them aboard ships may begin to slowly expose them to the outside world and the reality and limitations of their own cage. A warship may represent the naked Emperor's new clothing, whose interaction with others eventually causes him to realize he is indeed naked, or in this case, a slave. As a result, their previous life as they knew it — their contentment, their complacency, their naivety and satisfaction — may not want them back after they've become tainted with humanity. Like the wild animal who has been fondled by a human and as a result their own clan rejects them because of the acquired new smell rubbed onto them by close human encounters of the third kind. It is the same psychology at work. Placing the slaves aboard ship represents a bit of a risk, no?

I wonder if it will all be a moot point. Will a Malign's entire crew be given suicide protocols, to self-destruct in the event of capture and interrogation? Or will the entire ship simply go boom?

I don't think it matters, how the MAlign crews their vessels. What lines they use isn't important as long as they are capable of doing the job. They don't need an Alpha to compete with Honor. Her skills as a Naval Commander are more taught and developed. Sure some of it is innate ability. But most of her skills come from training, practical combat experience, and the skills of the people around her.

I agree with Sigs on making the Sharks more labor intensive compared to the Lennys as to develop crews faster. I also think it would be easier to make labor intensive Sharks to prove their concept than it would be to prove the concept and use extensive automation.

ywing14 wrote:I don't think it matters, how the MAlign crews their vessels. What lines they use isn't important as long as they are capable of doing the job. They don't need an Alpha to compete with Honor. Her skills as a Naval Commander are more taught and developed. Sure some of it is innate ability. But most of her skills come from training, practical combat experience, and the skills of the people around her.

I agree with Sigs on making the Sharks more labor intensive compared to the Lennys as to develop crews faster. I also think it would be easier to make labor intensive Sharks to prove their concept than it would be to prove the concept and use extensive automation.

Whereas I tend to attribute a bit more weight of her over the top skills to her IQ mods.

Honor has naturally cloned her IQ mods with her offspring and she's going to teach them everything she knows. If the MA can match her IQ mods, they damn well better send them.

ywing14 wrote:I agree with Sigs on making the Sharks more labor intensive compared to the Lennys as to develop crews faster. I also think it would be easier to make labor intensive Sharks to prove their concept than it would be to prove the concept and use extensive automation.

Extensive automation works fine. See the LCS and DD1000 programs. Perfection in action.

cthia wrote:

ywing14 wrote:I don't think it matters, how the MAlign crews their vessels. What lines they use isn't important as long as they are capable of doing the job. They don't need an Alpha to compete with Honor. Her skills as a Naval Commander are more taught and developed. Sure some of it is innate ability. But most of her skills come from training, practical combat experience, and the skills of the people around her.

I agree with Sigs on making the Sharks more labor intensive compared to the Lennys as to develop crews faster. I also think it would be easier to make labor intensive Sharks to prove their concept than it would be to prove the concept and use extensive automation.

Whereas I tend to attribute a bit more weight of her over the top skills to her IQ mods.

Honor has naturally cloned her IQ mods with her offspring and she's going to teach them everything she knows. If the MA can match her IQ mods, they damn well better send them.

Understood, IQ is important, I just think it's less than half the reason she's a great combat commander.

cthia wrote:

ywing14 wrote:I don't think it matters, how the MAlign crews their vessels. What lines they use isn't important as long as they are capable of doing the job. They don't need an Alpha to compete with Honor. Her skills as a Naval Commander are more taught and developed. Sure some of it is innate ability. But most of her skills come from training, practical combat experience, and the skills of the people around her.

I agree with Sigs on making the Sharks more labor intensive compared to the Lennys as to develop crews faster. I also think it would be easier to make labor intensive Sharks to prove their concept than it would be to prove the concept and use extensive automation.

Whereas I tend to attribute a bit more weight of her over the top skills to her IQ mods.

Honor has naturally cloned her IQ mods with her offspring and she's going to teach them everything she knows. If the MA can match her IQ mods, they damn well better send them.

ywing14 wrote:Understood, IQ is important, I just think it's less than half the reason she's a great combat commander.

But she isn't a great combat commander. Great combat commanders are a dime a dozen in the GA. (Granted, they're totally nonexistent in the Sol System.)

But Honor is the greatest combat commander that ever took a ship into hyper.

I don't know enough about Edward Saganami, Ellen D'Orville, and Gustav Anderman to make the assertion she's the greatest Admiral ever. Plus you've got folks like Yi Sun Sin. I certainly agree she's the greatest of her time.

kzt wrote:

ywing14 wrote:I agree with Sigs on making the Sharks more labor intensive compared to the Lennys as to develop crews faster. I also think it would be easier to make labor intensive Sharks to prove their concept than it would be to prove the concept and use extensive automation.

Extensive automation works fine. See the LCS and DD1000 programs. Perfection in action.

What's an LCS and DD1000 program?