Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance

A lot of things could happen in 200 years, the MAlign could orchestrate another war between star nations. GA could view the threat as gone (Unlikely in certain portions of the government) but likely for aspects of the population. We've discussed previously that the GA is going to be looking for the MAlign. I think more planets makes it easier for the GA to stubble upon them.

Darius uses genetic slavery, so I am not 100% certain how money plays into everything their doing. Also given their infiltration of the League I think it's hard to say how much money they do or do not have without money. If money is an issue how are they going to come up with it to colonize planets and build naval vessels? Also look at tall the worlds that had major setbacks during the colonization process. Manticore had one, the Andies had one (though its more the planet had an issue and it too 20 years to address), Choboter had one fairly recently in the verge. I also don't think it would be easier and easier at every planet. Yeah you might have the preparation part down but every planet is different and the threats on each planet will be different.

So at what point do they come into the open? because it seems to me like you want the Malign to completely change their strategy and go for an outright military solution. In 120 years they've got 80 planets. Do you think they could hide all that from the rest of the Galaxy?

ywing14 wrote:A lot of things could happen in 200 years, the MAlign could orchestrate another war between star nations. GA could view the threat as gone (Unlikely in certain portions of the government) but likely for aspects of the population. We've discussed previously that the GA is going to be looking for the MAlign. I think more planets makes it easier for the GA to stubble upon them.

Darius uses genetic slavery, so I am not 100% certain how money plays into everything their doing. Also given their infiltration of the League I think it's hard to say how much money they do or do not have without money. If money is an issue how are they going to come up with it to colonize planets and build naval vessels? Also look at tall the worlds that had major setbacks during the colonization process. Manticore had one, the Andies had one (though its more the planet had an issue and it too 20 years to address), Choboter had one fairly recently in the verge. I also don't think it would be easier and easier at every planet. Yeah you might have the preparation part down but every planet is different and the threats on each planet will be different.

So at what point do they come into the open? because it seems to me like you want the Malign to completely change their strategy and go for an outright military solution. In 120 years they've got 80 planets. Do you think they could hide all that from the rest of the Galaxy?

As I've noted before, the action is now political, rather than genetic. The only real restriction on genetics seems to be going outside the human race. The only folks who seem to have that issue are some of the "pleasure slaves." With Manpower gone, not much of an issue.

The Renaissance Factor could just push for more genetic change UNDER THE PROTOCOLS and could make lots of changes. They probably don't have to take over a colonizing expedition. Just get to key families on a planet and offer improvements and money and start up new alpha or gamma lines. I don't recall ever reading about beta lines. Some key people could go a long way especially with prolong in the mix. Affect a young couple and they could live over a century doing your work.

They've invested loads of money in the endgame with their R&D in the Sharks and Lenny Dets already.* Who is funding, shall fund, did fund them? Who will fund the RF? Originally, who was to be the opposing navy to do battle with them? Obviously the MA foresees a need for some galactic firepower. If they had envisioned a galaxy League free, then who was to be the opposition? Surely not the broken remnants of the League?

Were the Lennys and the Sharks developed simply to wreak havoc on the Haven sector and meant only to have a peripheral part in the endgame?

*Not to mention the horrendous funding it took to get a genetic leg up. The nanotech might have cost a fortune in development alone, unless they stumbled upon it accidentally.

Surgically snipped and transplanted from eighty-sixed thread...


A thought comes to mind though. What is the make up of the RF and the LRPB?

This is the wiki data chip on the RF.

On the LRPB.

Detweiler Consortium.

A question occurred to me whether or not these people are genies themselves. Or is their genetic code untainted to allow them to blend in better amongst nongenies. If so, they may be able to actually see clearer than the toxic genetic soup coursing through the "veins" of a bunch of megalomaniacal psychopaths.

At any rate, the data chips don't make it clear, as far as I can ascertain. Anything I missed elsewhere on the subject? Also, was Leonard a genie himself, in the beginning?

Annachie wrote:The absolute first thing they should do, is study those treecats.

By now they must have reports of treecats acting as body guards, and that they can detect their nanoagents.

They must be curious as to the veracity, and concerned if they are true.

Anything else is secondary to that threat to their covert intelligence gathering operations.

They could also send the assassins in teams of two. One as a distraction. I'd like to know what a treecat would do in sight of an assassin who has just activated but doing something totally non threatening. Like a female simply disrobing to distract the audience and draw the attention of the cat(s), before the real killer activates.

In addition to my recommendation upstream to assume the veracity of the reports and delay going active until the last possible minute in the vicinity of a cat.

Really, what would a treecat do in the presence of an activated nanoassasin that is non threatening?

Does anyone know for a fact whether Leonard Detweiler was a genie?

cthia wrote:Does anyone know for a fact whether Leonard Detweiler was a genie?

Leonard Detweiler was the product of a society which had embraced genetic tweaking and genetic repair for centuries. In the process, his genome had artificially departed from the "norms" established on old Earth before the Diaspora. So had any number of other genomes by the time he was born, frequently — indeed, more often than not — without any deliberate, artificial manipulation being involved. As Detweiler himself pointed out on numerous occasions, extra-solar colonies were, by their very nature, even more mutagenic than Old Earth herself. He was not a "designed" human being, however. He was the result of the normal process of conception with minimal genegineering intervention.

He saw the potential for more aggressive modification (like the Meyerdahl mods) although large-scale, non-incremental genetic modification for any purpose other than to suit colonists for their new homes had come to be frowned upon even before the Final War. Part of that was sort of the normal ebb and flow of social faddism and part of it resulted from concerns which had already arisen about the weaponization of both nanotech and genetic tech. None of it had reached the level of the hysteria over GMOs we are currently experiencing, but there were definitely a lot of people Viewing With Alarm™.

The Beowulf (and Solarian in general) reaction to the genetic modifications of the Final War "super soldiers," didn't spring only from the aftermath of the war. It also sprang from the fact that people had been warning about the potential dangers of creating "super soldiers" (or "genetically superior sub-species) for some time before the Final War. In that sense, the Final War simply justified and validated the concerns which had been expressed before the war. And that gave added impetus to the formation and the severity of the Beowulf Code's restrictions on genetic modification.

Detweiler rejected those restrictions and the "cowardly paranoia" upon which they rested, and he put his money where his mouth was. His children, for example, were designed to be significant improvements upon his own genotype, although he didn't get as carried away as even some of his contemporaries. He, himself, however, would not have been considered Alpha or Beta line quality by the Alignment of Honor's time.

And, I reiterate one more time, Leonard Detweiler would never have approved of the final iteration of the plan named for him.

cthia wrote:They've invested loads of money in the endgame with their R&D in the Sharks and Lenny Dets already.* Who is funding, shall fund, did fund them? Who will fund the RF? Originally, who was to be the opposing navy to do battle with them? Obviously the MA foresees a need for some galactic firepower. If they had envisioned a galaxy League free, then who was to be the opposition? Surely not the broken remnants of the League?

Were the Lennys and the Sharks developed simply to wreak havoc on the Haven sector and meant only to have a peripheral part in the endgame?

*Not to mention the horrendous funding it took to get a genetic leg up. The nanotech might have cost a fortune in development alone, unless they stumbled upon it accidentally.

The MA strategic game was to have SKM bleed PRH while being destroyed by Haven. The SL would then engage in a war of mutual destruction with the PRH. The RF would then offer a nucleus of safety and serenity amidst the chaos of the post SLN galaxy.

The RH joining with the SEM to defeat the SL while being aware of the existence of the MA upsets the multi-generation planning of the MA/Detweiler clan.

cthia wrote:They've invested loads of money in the endgame with their R&D in the Sharks and Lenny Dets already.* Who is funding, shall fund, did fund them? Who will fund the RF? Originally, who was to be the opposing navy to do battle with them? Obviously the MA foresees a need for some galactic firepower. If they had envisioned a galaxy League free, then who was to be the opposition? Surely not the broken remnants of the League?

Were the Lennys and the Sharks developed simply to wreak havoc on the Haven sector and meant only to have a peripheral part in the endgame?

*Not to mention the horrendous funding it took to get a genetic leg up. The nanotech might have cost a fortune in development alone, unless they stumbled upon it accidentally.

Maybe they're using Star Trek economics and not money - at least on Darius. See Jacque Fresco, Venus Project, Resource Based Economy.

runsforcelery wrote:

cthia wrote:Does anyone know for a fact whether Leonard Detweiler was a genie?

Leonard Detweiler was the product of a society which had embraced genetic tweaking and genetic repair for centuries. In the process, his genome had artificially departed from the "norms" established on old Earth before the Diaspora. So had any number of other genomes by the time he was born, frequently — indeed, more often than not — without any deliberate, artificial manipulation being involved. As Detweiler himself pointed out on numerous occasions, extra-solar colonies were, by their very nature, even more mutagenic than Old Earth herself. He was not a "designed" human being, however. He was the result of the normal process of conception with minimal genegineering intervention.

He saw the potential for more aggressive modification (like the Meyerdahl mods) although large-scale, non-incremental genetic modification for any purpose other than to suit colonists for their new homes had come to be frowned upon even before the Final War. Part of that was sort of the normal ebb and flow of social faddism and part of it resulted from concerns which had already arisen about the weaponization of both nanotech and genetic tech. None of it had reached the level of the hysteria over GMOs we are currently experiencing, but there were definitely a lot of people Viewing With Alarm™.

The Beowulf (and Solarian in general) reaction to the genetic modifications of the Final War "super soldiers," didn't spring only from the aftermath of the war. It also sprang from the fact that people had been warning about the potential dangers of creating "super soldiers" (or "genetically superior sub-species) for some time before the Final War. In that sense, the Final War simply justified and validated the concerns which had been expressed before the war. And that gave added impetus to the formation and the severity of the Beowulf Code's restrictions on genetic modification.

Detweiler rejected those restrictions and the "cowardly paranoia" upon which they rested, and he put his money where his mouth was. His children, for example, were designed to be significant improvements upon his own genotype, although he didn't get as carried away as even some of his contemporaries. He, himself, however, would not have been considered Alpha or Beta line quality by the Alignment of Honor's time.

And, I reiterate one more time, Leonard Detweiler would never have approved of the final iteration of the plan named for him.

Thanks RFC.

I was hoping that would be the case. Little wonder Leonard was the only sane one in the family. He was "normal."

More circumstantial evidence that extreme genengineering -- DNA on steroids -- makes you crazy.

The Clockwork started to turn Orange with Albrecht.

It also may be why Leonard didn't clone himself. He wasn't perfect enough. And Albrecht had to reach that plateau before he cloned himself. He was the real guinea pig?

If the MA are to sit the present galaxy out and withdraw back into its shell for centuries more, shouldn't the LRPB consider cloning the sons? I can't imagine cloning the sons hasn't already been discussed several times. By us and them.