SPOILER end of the MA

George J. Smith wrote:I suppose what is built will be what the author decides

That's the boring way to look at it

I don't think there should be a major discussion for the warships of the RMN other then make the Roland the benchmark for smaller/weakest hyper capable warship. Just like Frigates were deemed obsolete by first rate navies so should any warship less capable then the Roland in the long term. Why equip your fleet with ships that can fulfill one role and will be no more then targets in a war situation with anyone approaching technological parity?


If it were up to me I would redesign the Roland to add facilities for a marine detachment and extra crew space while leaving the rest as it. Having a large percentage of your fleet's light combatants having little to no role in combat seems like a waste to me. Give it the firepower to be a useful warship and the marines and crew to be able to have prize crew's. Hell give it the facilities to house 150 people but the ability to be operated with 70 or 80 people. In peace time the ships are manned to the full capacity with redundancies, for anti piracy leave them with shorter shifts and longer breaks in between shifts while in wartime duties the extra crew is stripped from those ships and put into a pool of trained crew awaiting assignment for new construction or reserve activation.

In peacetime you operate with peacetime requirements but you have the ability to use those ships in wartime as well with the added bonus of getting the excess crew for other duties.

Lets look at it this way.

Assuming the SEM gets into navy sales and system support. Either in partnership as the GA or alone.
(Lets face it. They should. The former is a good money maker and the latter good diplomacy)

Customers are going to ask: What are the SEM using for system defence.
And that is what they are going to want.

LAC's, modern style but not SOTA, and system defence missile pods.

The LACS are damn near everything you need for regular anti piracy work. Only weakness is perhaps a lack of marines for boarding.
Optional LAC carrier for systems that have a lot of stuff beyond the hyper limit. Nothing fancy, a converted merchie or fleet support hull would do.

The SDP's ( System defence pods) can quite happily be capacitor missiles. Even just 2 stagers to avoid that long range control problem.

Nothing too expensive, relatively speaking.

Theemile wrote:The Office of Frontier Services is dismantling - NOT the Frontier Fleet of the Solarian League Navy.

Yes, FF was essentially OFS's puppet, but they are not the same organization, and FF's breakup was not part of Honor's terms - just it's immediate withdraw to SL space was. It is not going away any time soon, ...

There is that minor condition Honor imposed on the SLN that would hamper SLN anti-piracy operations:

Any SLN warship sighted outside of Solarian League space will be considered a pirate and treated accordingly.

That essentially pens Frontier Fleet back inside the Shell (Battle Fleets's domain) even if it isn't disbanded completely.

How that is going to affect former OFS sectors that follow MARS' example and co-opt the FF bases in their sector as the basis for their sector Navy is going to be a diplomatic nightmare.

Weird Harold wrote:

Theemile wrote:The Office of Frontier Services is dismantling - NOT the Frontier Fleet of the Solarian League Navy.

Yes, FF was essentially OFS's puppet, but they are not the same organization, and FF's breakup was not part of Honor's terms - just it's immediate withdraw to SL space was. It is not going away any time soon, ...

There is that minor condition Honor imposed on the SLN that would hamper SLN anti-piracy operations:

Any SLN warship sighted outside of Solarian League space will be considered a pirate and treated accordingly.

That essentially pens Frontier Fleet back inside the Shell (Battle Fleets's domain) even if it isn't disbanded completely.

How that is going to affect former OFS sectors that follow MARS' example and co-opt the FF bases in their sector as the basis for their sector Navy is going to be a diplomatic nightmare.

Now that's an interesting question. M.A.R.S was in a slightly different situation where it had been allowed to build it's own units to support Frontier Fleet, and really only purloined a FF Destroyer Flotilla. If the other Satraps still held power over their regions (where legally, they were supposed to disband under Honor's Terms), and held on to the naval resources in the area, the SL is in no position to do anything about it.

The question is what will the GA do about it. According to the terms, OFS is supposed to disband and leave the protectorates - wouldn't this be a version of OFS (under local orders) not disbanding and holding onto their prizes?

Barragos covered himself - he was voted into place by the local voters and he put the final disposition of Maya leaving in their hands as well. I doubt many (if any) other OFS officials have their public on their side.

Weird Harold wrote:

Theemile wrote:The Office of Frontier Services is dismantling - NOT the Frontier Fleet of the Solarian League Navy.

Yes, FF was essentially OFS's puppet, but they are not the same organization, and FF's breakup was not part of Honor's terms - just it's immediate withdraw to SL space was. It is not going away any time soon, ...

There is that minor condition Honor imposed on the SLN that would hamper SLN anti-piracy operations:

Any SLN warship sighted outside of Solarian League space will be considered a pirate and treated accordingly.

That essentially pens Frontier Fleet back inside the Shell (Battle Fleets's domain) even if it isn't disbanded completely.

How that is going to affect former OFS sectors that follow MARS' example and co-opt the FF bases in their sector as the basis for their sector Navy is going to be a diplomatic nightmare.

Now that's an interesting question. M.A.R.S was in a slightly different situation where it had been allowed to build it's own units to support Frontier Fleet, and really only purloined a FF Destroyer Flotilla. If the other Satraps still held power over their regions (where legally, they were supposed to disband under Honor's Terms), and held on to the naval resources in the area, the SL is in no position to do anything about it.

The question is what will the GA do about it. According to the terms, OFS is supposed to disband and leave the protectorates - wouldn't this be a version of OFS (under local orders) not disbanding and holding onto their prizes?

Barragos covered himself - he was voted into place by the local voters and he put the final disposition of Maya leaving in their hands as well. I doubt many (if any) other OFS officials have their public on their side.[/quote]


Lots of issues. I think there will be a lot of changes. Remember that the most unfair governments were able to exist because they had the FF behind them.

I doubt the FF will really push all that hard any more. Killing a lot of people will not look good to the new government.

Of course, there are ways to cover it up.

Chances are, if the new government has any real wisdom (few governments anywhere really do) it will use the FF on piracy patrols and work out a lot of deals where protectorates are really protectorates and not more or less slaves.

If they come up with some reasonable amount of fairness and some protection, there will be planets who will not have problems with the League.

ldwechsler wrote:

Theemile wrote:
Now that's an interesting question. M.A.R.S was in a slightly different situation where it had been allowed to build it's own units to support Frontier Fleet, and really only purloined a FF Destroyer Flotilla. If the other Satraps still held power over their regions (where legally, they were supposed to disband under Honor's Terms), and held on to the naval resources in the area, the SL is in no position to do anything about it.

The question is what will the GA do about it. According to the terms, OFS is supposed to disband and leave the protectorates - wouldn't this be a version of OFS (under local orders) not disbanding and holding onto their prizes?

Barragos covered himself - he was voted into place by the local voters and he put the final disposition of Maya leaving in their hands as well. I doubt many (if any) other OFS officials have their public on their side.

Lots of issues. I think there will be a lot of changes. Remember that the most unfair governments were able to exist because they had the FF behind them.

I doubt the FF will really push all that hard any more. Killing a lot of people will not look good to the new government.

Of course, there are ways to cover it up.

Chances are, if the new government has any real wisdom (few governments anywhere really do) it will use the FF on piracy patrols and work out a lot of deals where protectorates are really protectorates and not more or less slaves.

If they come up with some reasonable amount of fairness and some protection, there will be planets who will not have problems with the League.

You mean the way things were 300 years ago....

Annachie wrote:The LACS are damn near everything you need for regular anti piracy work. Only weakness is perhaps a lack of marines for boarding.

Or a non Hyper capable 40,000 ton ship with a Marine Platoon on board. Backed up by regular LAC's and you have a winning combination for anti piracy defence.

ldwechsler wrote:
Chances are, if the new government has any real wisdom (few governments anywhere really do) it will use the FF on piracy patrols and work out a lot of deals where protectorates are really protectorates and not more or less slaves.

If they come up with some reasonable amount of fairness and some protection, there will be planets who will not have problems with the League.

It might be decades if not centuries before anyone trusts the League in any form with protectorates. They would have to prove that they have changed and for most people it would with prolong be a very long time before they soften up to the idea... or they have to be very desperate. Plus the core and shell worlds that remain with the League might not have the stomach for it, it would likely become common knowledge within the league shortly what the conditions were in the verge/protectorates and it would be hard to hide from the truth. And by common knowledge I mean it will be everywhere and it would be hard for anyone to stick their head in the sand and ignore that portion of League history.

Sigs wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:
Chances are, if the new government has any real wisdom (few governments anywhere really do) it will use the FF on piracy patrols and work out a lot of deals where protectorates are really protectorates and not more or less slaves.

If they come up with some reasonable amount of fairness and some protection, there will be planets who will not have problems with the League.

It might be decades if not centuries before anyone trusts the League in any form with protectorates. They would have to prove that they have changed and for most people it would with prolong be a very long time before they soften up to the idea... or they have to be very desperate. Plus the core and shell worlds that remain with the League might not have the stomach for it, it would likely become common knowledge within the league shortly what the conditions were in the verge/protectorates and it would be hard to hide from the truth. And by common knowledge I mean it will be everywhere and it would be hard for anyone to stick their head in the sand and ignore that portion of League history.

I'm sure that there will be trust issues outside the Core worlds in the Shell and the Verge. But for the Core, probably not so much. After all the system was rigged in their favor and they were pretty insulated from reality.

Don

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