SPOILER end of the MA

Joat42 wrote:It seems some people live with the misunderstanding that the anti-piracy and commerce protection the SEM has to do is going to involve a large part of the planets in the Verge and shell.

The SEM has little interest in that, the primary goal is to protect its own and allied merchants trading with the SEM.

Agreed. However, the protectorates have been shipping bulk goods into the League. Those goods have some appreciable advantage over the Core Worlds producing those things themselves. The war hasn't stopped those goods from being produced nor the demand for them in the Core Worlds. What the war has done is free the protectorates from being required to use Solly shipping. Between the temporary loss of legal standing of the Solarian Credit, the Protectorates dislike and distrust of their previous overlords and the dearth of Solly hulls, the RMMM has the inside track in controlling the vast majority of that trade. What they can't serve the remainder of the GA will serve happily. This state of affairs will continue for some time as the Transtellars attempt to rebuild their relationships with the rest of the galaxy.

That means the RMMM will be spread much wider along the Verge and Protectorates than they had been. Commerce protection will involve lots of showing the flag, piracy patrols, escort duty and flat relationship building all along the Verge and ex-Protectorates. The GA will help these star systems develop their economies, organize regional defense alliances and acquire systems defense weapons. They will also show up regularly because their shipping will serve those systems.

Joat42 wrote:It seems some people live with the misunderstanding that the anti-piracy and commerce protection the SEM has to do is going to involve a large part of the planets in the Verge and shell.

The SEM has little interest in that, the primary goal is to protect its own and allied merchants trading with the SEM.

And also there's not currently a significant piracy problem in League/recently ex-League territory, and pretty much any full League member can easily build or buy sufficient defenses to deter traditional pirates if they don't have them already. Pre-Andy/Manty Silesia is very atypical.

I agree that the GA cannot be the Galaxy's policeman. As Frontier Fleet is removed from the scene, there will be thousands of bcs and other lighter units that can be divided up throughout the galaxy to police regional areas against piracy. Those will also enable regional alliances and small empires such as Maya.

The GA should have sufficient units to protect its own commerce. Obviously enough, more commerce will require more light units. They can be paid for out of the increased gross system income that increased commerce will produce.

The GA can also help its trading partners and allies with commerce protection and system defense, but the tax payers and corporations of the areas should foot the bill for that as far as possible.

Otherwise, GA naval resources should be used strictly in accordance with the GA's strategic interests.

Speaking to Sigs interest in SD(p)s, I don't think that ships designed almost exclusively for high intensity warfare improve anyone's security at this time. The combined allied fleet at present could conquer the known galaxy, but would fail in providing security to all but a tiny fraction of it. That would remain true even if its size were doubled. Far better at the moment to emphsize lighter units to enable wider and more intensive coverage to areas of commercial and strategic interest.

Don

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light units yes but I feel the roland is the wrong ship.

yes the MK 16G is very useful but if this is meant to be anti piracy/general security then on the off chance you capture a ship (or don't blow it into itty bitty pieces) then the ability to send marines to make sure it is safe for naval personnel is a big lack in the roland design.

now as the pirates might conceivably have gotten some cataphracts or similar then the LERM that the avalon uses is too little missile, though the range of the LERM is almost equal to a cataphract, discounting ballistic phases, and it carries a repectable warhead (though it isn't a Mod G) so I suppose some argument could be made for it.

that leaves a Sag C, which really is too much ship. I suppose Nikes are possibly but even in silesa a BC was rarely used.

so until either a DDM CL or a upsized roland with a decent marine complement is built, it looks like the Sag C is going to be the workhorse.

Dauntless wrote:light units yes but I feel the roland is the wrong ship.

yes the MK 16G is very useful but if this is meant to be anti piracy/general security then on the off chance you capture a ship (or don't blow it into itty bitty pieces) then the ability to send marines to make sure it is safe for naval personnel is a big lack in the roland design.

now as the pirates might conceivably have gotten some cataphracts or similar then the LERM that the avalon uses is too little missile, though the range of the LERM is almost equal to a cataphract, discounting ballistic phases, and it carries a repectable warhead (though it isn't a Mod G) so I suppose some argument could be made for it.

that leaves a Sag C, which really is too much ship. I suppose Nikes are possibly but even in silesa a BC was rarely used.

so until either a DDM CL or a upsized roland with a decent marine complement is built, it looks like the Sag C is going to be the workhorse.

One problem with your analysis. The cataphract cannot be fired from DD/CLs - the smallest Cataphract is a CA/BC sized missile with a DD warhead.

Since most Pirates will be FG/DD/CL in size, there is no way they are going to be fielding a cataphract. So a Avalon will be sufficient for 90% or more of pirate threats.

Once CA or BCs are in the picture, you are usually facing state sponsored piracy, which is a whole other animal.

Dauntless wrote:light units yes but I feel the roland is the wrong ship.

yes the MK 16G is very useful but if this is meant to be anti piracy/general security then on the off chance you capture a ship (or don't blow it into itty bitty pieces) then the ability to send marines to make sure it is safe for naval personnel is a big lack in the roland design.

Depending on the size of the convoy to be protected, a division of DDs or CLs (whether MK16G capable or just LERM and ERM equipped) should probably be paired with a FSV or CLAC. Either can provide the boarding parties a Roland can't. The DDs and CLs provide the energy combat a FSV or CLAC can't provide in a grav wave.

Dauntless wrote:...so until either a DDM CL or a upsized roland with a decent marine complement is built, it looks like the Sag C is going to be the workhorse.

LERM and ERM equipped DDs and CLs make up a large portion of the RMN presence in the Silesian Protectorates; they are sufficient for piracy suppression and commerce protection there. As Theemile notes, anything large enough to use cataphracts is likely state-sponsored privateers or commerce raiders. Even then ERM and LERM missiles are competitive.

The GA does have ever larger hammers for particularly well-equipped "pirates" so they won't be much of a problem for very long if they're stupid enough to take up commerce raiding or piracy.

Dauntless wrote:light units yes but I feel the roland is the wrong ship.

yes the MK 16G is very useful but if this is meant to be anti piracy/general security then on the off chance you capture a ship (or don't blow it into itty bitty pieces) then the ability to send marines to make sure it is safe for naval personnel is a big lack in the roland design.

Weird Harold wrote:
Depending on the size of the convoy to be protected, a division of DDs or CLs (whether MK16G capable or just LERM and ERM equipped) should probably be paired with a FSV or CLAC. Either can provide the boarding parties a Roland can't. The DDs and CLs provide the energy combat a FSV or CLAC can't provide in a grav wave.

Dauntless wrote:...so until either a DDM CL or a upsized roland with a decent marine complement is built, it looks like the Sag C is going to be the workhorse.

Weird Harold wrote:
LERM and ERM equipped DDs and CLs make up a large portion of the RMN presence in the Silesian Protectorates; they are sufficient for piracy suppression and commerce protection there. As Theemile notes, anything large enough to use cataphracts is likely state-sponsored privateers or commerce raiders. Even then ERM and LERM missiles are competitive.

The GA does have ever larger hammers for particularly well-equipped "pirates" so they won't be much of a problem for very long if they're stupid enough to take up commerce raiding or piracy.

Yeah, the Avalon and Kamerling class CLs are pretty much designed for these roles. Off bore capable and firing the mk36 LERMs. The Avalon is designed as a merchant escort and the Kamerling is more for anti piracy operations with its 3 companies of marines. The Nike, Sag-C and Roland for show the flag duties and the occasional hammer and the Kamerling and Avalon for the down and dirty work of commerce protection.

Um, what kind of anti-piracy operation requires over 500 marines?

That’s like sending the entire SWAT team off to just enforce jaywalking laws at 3rd and Main for a month.

drothgery wrote:

Joat42 wrote:It seems some people live with the misunderstanding that the anti-piracy and commerce protection the SEM has to do is going to involve a large part of the planets in the Verge and shell.

The SEM has little interest in that, the primary goal is to protect its own and allied merchants trading with the SEM.

And also there's not currently a significant piracy problem in League/recently ex-League territory, and pretty much any full League member can easily build or buy sufficient defenses to deter traditional pirates if they don't have them already. Pre-Andy/Manty Silesia is very atypical.

I agree there isn't currently a problem. But we don't really know what's going to happen to the league. The impression I got from the books is that certainly the Verge/Protectorates and the Shell would like to take a go at it alone. Additionally, I think we will see Kingsford trying to fix the navy which could result in a lot of navy personnel suddenly unemployed.

kzt wrote:Um, what kind of anti-piracy operation requires over 500 marines?

The kind that goes after a planetary government that supports a pirate/privateer fleet?

That's probably why most of the Kammerlings are in the Silesian Protectorates.