Solarian Cruisers (SPOILER)

Theemile wrote:SLN classes so far mentioned in text:

DD
. War Harvest
. Rampart
CL
. Liberty (retired)
. Morrigan
. Bridgeport
CA
. Gladiator
. Kutuzov
. Mikasa

Brigade XO wrote:I have to wonder if anybody is going to think to compare the data about the explosion of the Space Station at New Tuscany with the ones at Beowulf?

I realize that Adm Byng might not have thought to order one but perhaps somebody in the Task Force (this was FF after all) might have thought to see what actualy blew up the station and used their own ship's sensor logs.

It is not beyond possiblilty that the 4 bombs were actual closely related warheads in those shipping containers.
That would be one more piece into the Alignment puzzle.
One presumes the weapons were staged into a location for the Alignment mission to Beowulf because it might not be so good if you had to steal (or have misplaced) three warheads from a military storage area.

Besides, if you couldn't use "stock" SLN weapons diverted from someplace - like a production line of Technodyne), then a few containers from Darius wouldn't be too hard. After all, those massive graser torpedos equiped with all that sensor gear and solar panals came from Darius (brand new design) so why not warheads?
In the short term (decades anyway) not being able to identify where the nuclear weapons were manufactured- based on analysis of explosion reside- would continue to cloud the question of "who did this".

n7axw wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:I have to wonder if anybody is going to think to compare the data about the explosion of the Space Station at New Tuscany with the ones at Beowulf?

I realize that Adm Byng might not have thought to order one but perhaps somebody in the Task Force (this was FF after all) might have thought to see what actualy blew up the station and used their own ship's sensor logs.

It is not beyond possiblilty that the 4 bombs were actual closely related warheads in those shipping containers.
That would be one more piece into the Alignment puzzle.
One presumes the weapons were staged into a location for the Alignment mission to Beowulf because it might not be so good if you had to steal (or have misplaced) three warheads from a military storage area.

Besides, if you couldn't use "stock" SLN weapons diverted from someplace - like a production line of Technodyne), then a few containers from Darius wouldn't be too hard. After all, those massive graser torpedos equiped with all that sensor gear and solar panals came from Darius (brand new design) so why not warheads?
In the short term (decades anyway) not being able to identify where the nuclear weapons were manufactured- based on analysis of explosion reside- would continue to cloud the question of "who did this".

Good points. I will only commenting that Byng had no interest in investigating. He was too busy trying to CYOA.

Don

-

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:As far as the SLN not having a mission for cruisers, I don't think we have enough data. RFC may just not have written a scene that included many CA's because they are all in use in other out of the way places on the Fringe.

FF's uses of the Indefatigable class reminds me a lot of the People's Navy use of battleships for system security & suppression. But Himself didn't give us any insight into fleet strength or philosophy to know what they had; or if they wanted what they actually had.

Here is a different possibility:

Frontier Fleet got so many battlecruisers because that was the ship Battle Fleet wanted for a screening vessel, and FF had to make do with it. The actual missions in the Verge don't seem to have needed a BC's firepower at all, it was the flag officer's ego that rated the BC.

And it is also possible that, since they were stuck with all those BC's, that FF didn't put flag decks on all their heavy cruisers in the first place. Sort of like the Prince Consort, which was designed when the SLN was still considered the galaxy's premiere navy.

Regards,

Rob

Somtaaw wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:As far as the SLN not having a mission for cruisers, I don't think we have enough data. RFC may just not have written a scene that included many CA's because they are all in use in other out of the way places on the Fringe.

FF's uses of the Indefatigable class reminds me a lot of the People's Navy use of battleships for system security & suppression. But Himself didn't give us any insight into fleet strength or philosophy to know what they had; or if they wanted what they actually had.

Here is a different possibility:

Frontier Fleet got so many battlecruisers because that was the ship Battle Fleet wanted for a screening vessel, and FF had to make do with it. The actual missions in the Verge don't seem to have needed a BC's firepower at all, it was the flag officer's ego that rated the BC.

And it is also possible that, since they were stuck with all those BC's, that FF didn't put flag decks on all their heavy cruisers in the first place. Sort of like the Prince Consort, which was designed when the SLN was still considered the galaxy's premiere navy.

Regards,

Rob

The reason you don't see much need for a battlecruiser in the Verge, is in part, because the League has that reputation of "biggest & most powerful navy in the universe". Nobody outside Manticore was willing to risk going eyeball to eyeball with the League, so when even 1 Solarian destroyer shows up, everybody else rolled over like a good doggo. Nobody ever dared attack Solly ships, because that was just a quick form of national suicide.


I'd say Frontier Fleet has so many battlecruisers actually more in part to it's original mission mandates, from before the League became corrupt.

Patrolling the frontiers against piracy, flag showing to allied neighbours, and most importantly trying to seal the borders of hostile neighbours until Battle Fleet could be mustered to deal with it. All of those missions are best served by battlecruisers, that's not flag officer ego it's simply how the class is designed.

As the League became more and more corrupt however, battlecruisers served another important role, notably that of "pirates", as covered in Frontier Fleets Case Buccaneer or Case Fabius.


Battlecruisers serve Frontier Fleet's needs almost perfectly for flagships. They just need double or triple the cruisers they have, because (manticoran viewpoint) destroyers are a fleets eyes and cruisers are it's fingers & hands. Frontier Fleet has more than enough battlecruisers to 'show the flag' but it's half blind, one armed and has a SEVERE case of palsy.

Somtaaw wrote:
Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
As far as the SLN not having a mission for cruisers, I don't think we have enough data. RFC may just not have written a scene that included many CA's because they are all in use in other out of the way places on the Fringe.

FF's uses of the Indefatigable class reminds me a lot of the People's Navy use of battleships for system security & suppression. But Himself didn't give us any insight into fleet strength or philosophy to know what they had; or if they wanted what they actually had.

Here is a different possibility:

Frontier Fleet got so many battlecruisers because that was the ship Battle Fleet wanted for a screening vessel, and FF had to make do with it. The actual missions in the Verge don't seem to have needed a BC's firepower at all, it was the flag officer's ego that rated the BC.

And it is also possible that, since they were stuck with all those BC's, that FF didn't put flag decks on all their heavy cruisers in the first place. Sort of like the Prince Consort, which was designed when the SLN was still considered the galaxy's premiere navy.

Regards,

Rob


The reason you don't see much need for a battlecruiser in the Verge, is in part, because the League has that reputation of "biggest & most powerful navy in the universe". Nobody outside Manticore was willing to risk going eyeball to eyeball with the League, so when even 1 Solarian destroyer shows up, everybody else rolled over like a good doggo. Nobody ever dared attack Solly ships, because that was just a quick form of national suicide.


I'd say Frontier Fleet has so many battlecruisers actually more in part to it's original mission mandates, from before the League became corrupt.

Patrolling the frontiers against piracy, flag showing to allied neighbours, and most importantly trying to seal the borders of hostile neighbours until Battle Fleet could be mustered to deal with it. All of those missions are best served by battlecruisers, that's not flag officer ego it's simply how the class is designed.

As the League became more and more corrupt however, battlecruisers served another important role, notably that of "pirates", as covered in Frontier Fleets Case Buccaneer or Case Fabius.


Battlecruisers serve Frontier Fleet's needs almost perfectly for flagships. They just need double or triple the cruisers they have, because (manticoran viewpoint) destroyers are a fleets eyes and cruisers are it's fingers & hands. Frontier Fleet has more than enough battlecruisers to 'show the flag' but it's half blind, one armed and has a SEVERE case of palsy.


Actually unlless they are going up against GA light units, Solly bcs are quite capable units with well trained crews who are competitve with every one else. The half blind half deaf and one armed bit does apply at the policy level.


Don

Maldorian wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:
Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
As far as the SLN not having a mission for cruisers, I don't think we have enough data. RFC may just not have written a scene that included many CA's because they are all in use in other out of the way places on the Fringe.

FF's uses of the Indefatigable class reminds me a lot of the People's Navy use of battleships for system security & suppression. But Himself didn't give us any insight into fleet strength or philosophy to know what they had; or if they wanted what they actually had.

Here is a different possibility:

Frontier Fleet got so many battlecruisers because that was the ship Battle Fleet wanted for a screening vessel, and FF had to make do with it. The actual missions in the Verge don't seem to have needed a BC's firepower at all, it was the flag officer's ego that rated the BC.

And it is also possible that, since they were stuck with all those BC's, that FF didn't put flag decks on all their heavy cruisers in the first place. Sort of like the Prince Consort, which was designed when the SLN was still considered the galaxy's premiere navy.

Regards,

Rob


The reason you don't see much need for a battlecruiser in the Verge, is in part, because the League has that reputation of "biggest & most powerful navy in the universe". Nobody outside Manticore was willing to risk going eyeball to eyeball with the League, so when even 1 Solarian destroyer shows up, everybody else rolled over like a good doggo. Nobody ever dared attack Solly ships, because that was just a quick form of national suicide.


I'd say Frontier Fleet has so many battlecruisers actually more in part to it's original mission mandates, from before the League became corrupt.

Patrolling the frontiers against piracy, flag showing to allied neighbours, and most importantly trying to seal the borders of hostile neighbours until Battle Fleet could be mustered to deal with it. All of those missions are best served by battlecruisers, that's not flag officer ego it's simply how the class is designed.

As the League became more and more corrupt however, battlecruisers served another important role, notably that of "pirates", as covered in Frontier Fleets Case Buccaneer or Case Fabius.


Battlecruisers serve Frontier Fleet's needs almost perfectly for flagships. They just need double or triple the cruisers they have, because (manticoran viewpoint) destroyers are a fleets eyes and cruisers are it's fingers & hands. Frontier Fleet has more than enough battlecruisers to 'show the flag' but it's half blind, one armed and has a SEVERE case of palsy.


Actually unlless they are going up against GA light units, Solly bcs are quite capable units with well trained crews who are competitve with every one else. The half blind half deaf and one armed bit does apply at the policy level.


Don

Who need´s destroyer as eyes? The League has people in the most systems of the league, the shell and the verge. You only need desroyers for scouting in systems without solarian presence.

n7axw wrote:
Actually unlless they are going up against GA light units, Solly bcs are quite capable units with well trained crews who are competitve with every one else. The half blind half deaf and one armed bit does apply at the policy level.


Don

-

Somtaaw wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Actually unlless they are going up against GA light units, Solly bcs are quite capable units with well trained crews who are competitve with every one else. The half blind half deaf and one armed bit does apply at the policy level.


Don

-

We think they are... remember nobody has been willing to even THINK about shooting a Solarian warship in over 300 years. And they aren't exactly that serious about anti-piracy patrols, and all evidence shows that their training sims are gimmes and the "secret details" get leaked to all the commanders before the sim even starts. So the only thing we know about Solarian training is based off their reputation from before the League became corrupt, and the League Navy got it's blinders on about how awesome it is, without actually looking at reality.

The half-blind, one-armed, and palsy is aimed more at the Navy level, rather than specific commanders or units. The SLN has a fraction of the destroyers and cruisers it needs. They dont have good recon drones or LAC's, so it's destroyers fill that role of checking things out, but due to numbers they don't have nearly enough (half blind). And then they don't have nearly enough cruisers to actually handle commerce protection, anti-piracy patrols, or even their 'support Gendarmes with orbital strikes' missions, or anything else that's normally a cruiser role, which is why they're one-armed.

And the palsy is mostly the seemingly endless bad commanders, making one bad choice after another, sometimes because they've received orders and they don't dare refuse (Tsang, or that one Admiral in charge of trying to get a freighter through a Manticoran highjacked wormhole)