SPOILER end of the MA

pappilon wrote:1) I think there is a misreading of what QEIII means by downsizing. She is not referring to what Janacek did which was criminally stupid. I agree with everything you are saying about the threat and all the unknowns, and how criminally stupid it would be to ignore the threat.

However
what many of are seeing, or comprehending from the text,(1) is that contrary to the Mandarins, Both the Manticoran Government and the Haven Government are accountable to the population. (2) The population hence the voters, hence the people the government is answerable to are sending a strong message:"you won the stupid war, both of them actally, we've been paying for your war for 20+ years. It's time to not be building a huge flet to fight the wars you won." (3) Within the confines of the political realities they are taking every step possible to not be criminally stupid. They are maintaining their search for the MA, they unlike Janacek are maintaining full funding for Bolthole and the Demonic Duo, they are trying to find ways to keepas much of their fleets as. While, yes they are downsizing, unlike Janacek. it is from outside political necessity, not insider poitical maneuvering.

Yes, granted keeping as much as is possible, considering the mood of the voters to whom they are ultimately responsible. And the "shut down the navy' voices are in the great minority. Going as fast and as furious as they have been may not be enough if they do not find a way to detect those spider drives. They are still having to bow to the pressure from the electorate. I do not see them abdicating their responsibilities to defend their territories, abandon their naval traditions, and all the other things you are so terrified they may be doing.

In a couple of places, it has been pointed out that taxation is not all that terribly high. Building ships is expensive but not when you've got a whole group of planets paying for it.

Also, keep in mind that it is likely that there will be great advances in tech. The top minds in the field...Foraker's and Hemphill's, and by that I mean their teams, will be working very hard on improvements.

Increased use of treecats should cut down on industrial espionage greatly.

And note that Darius is one planet. Yes, it has support from a dozen more, but still only one. And the ships built at the current time may be of little value in twenty years. Darius could push hard to build more ships but remember that the League had thousands, the vast majority of which became useless.

In space war, it's the tech that has real meaning, not just the numbers.

ldwechsler wrote:
In a couple of places, it has been pointed out that taxation is not all that terribly high. Building ships is expensive but not when you've got a whole group of planets paying for it.

Also, keep in mind that it is likely that there will be great advances in tech. The top minds in the field...Foraker's and Hemphill's, and by that I mean their teams, will be working very hard on improvements.

Increased use of treecats should cut down on industrial espionage greatly.

And note that Darius is one planet. Yes, it has support from a dozen more, but still only one. And the ships built at the current time may be of little value in twenty years. Darius could push hard to build more ships but remember that the League had thousands, the vast majority of which became useless.

In space war, it's the tech that has real meaning, not just the numbers.

NOT arguing any of your points. They are all perfectly valid. I'm merely saying that there is not unlimited political will to do all the things that should be done.

As far as taxation goes, I will only point to the US. In the 1950s the top rate was 90%, it has been steadily declining since Reagan, and the screamers still think taxes should be even lower. Nobody thinks taxes should be higher, except for Warren Buffet.

And, yet again, Neither Horrible Hemphill or Oblivious Foraker (apologies R&H) are short-sighted or criminally stupid enough to ignore any al-Fanudahis that manage to crop up in anyone's ONI, nor are Linda Trennis and whomever replaces Pat Givens.

Too much can never be enough for you.

Weird Harold wrote:
No I'm saying that for the next 5 or 10 years, the GA is going to need smaller ships for traditional Cruiser duties. In 5 or 10 years, the GA's many cruisers are going to be a match for anything built to counter SD(p)s.

How do you reach that conclusion?

The MAlign will have some very dangerous naval assets.

Likely DN(P) sized and SD(P) sized variants of their own...all the more reason to keep a strong fleet.

The GA already has some very dangerous naval assets in addition to the invincible SD(p)s. In 5-10 years, they should have some very, very dangerous naval assets -- as well as several squadrons of aging SD(p)s.

And in 5-10 years the SLN should have some very dangerous naval assets of their own with a few thousand aging SDs... so whats your point?

The main advantage of pod based designs is that it is stupidly simple to upgrade their armament. Then again, the Marksman-plus-ammo ship concept means a cruiser can have the firepower of an SD(p) or two without the investment in a big ship.

Sure it does... someone takes out your ammo ship and your Marksman class cruiser is just a cruiser.

A ship like the Charles Ward paired with Nike or Sag-C -- or even a division of Rolands -- can do almost everything an SD(p) can. And do it with the latest in pod based armament and countermeasures.

Yes, they can. On a smaller scale with less ammunition and lighter armaments for the most part. You seem to be forgetting that everyone else will be fighting to get the latest and greatest a well. End of the day the GA dos not have a monopoly on good ideas or smart people and sooner or later the other nations will be fielding ships of equivalent capabilities. When the MA, SLN and every other major navy in the Galaxy fields either technologically superior, equal or slightly inferior ships as you what then? A GA fleet that focuses almost exclusively on their light combatants [BC(L) and below] will be in a much weaker position when the SLN and the MA and all the other independent nations start fielding Capital Ships that can swat those lighter ships away.

A formal peace treaty and alliance with Haven and a peace treaty with the SL == less justification? What on earth are you smoking?

Yep...MUCH less. The GA might be at peace with the League but they sure as hell are not at peace with the people who just slaughtered 45 million civilians...or did I miss that part of the book? They are at peace with the weaker of their opponents but they are most definitely not at peace with the one that gutted their industry and killed tens of millions of their people so thats why there is no justification for demobilizing anything in fact that is justification for having the largest fleet you can afford so that you can defend yourself and bring the fight to them as soon as you find their location.

Weird Harold wrote:
You do realize that only the RMN's Eighth Fleet, the GSN, and the Andermani have KHII and full Apollo capability? Every other SD(P) in the Honorverse is obsolete and unsurvivable against anything that can stand up to Apollo?

Great... So what can stand up to Apollo? What navy can stand toe to toe with an SD(P) without keyhole of any nation expect survival? The SD(P)s the GA has might be obsolete against their own top notch equipment but they sure as hell will be some of the most powerful and dangerous ships for a loooooooooooooooooooong while. By the time someone has the technological parity to be able to threaten those SD(P)s the GA should have transitioned their full fleet to KHII or whatever comes next.

The initial plan for the GA was for Bolthole to build RHN standard SD(p) hulls with mounting space for KHII and then Beowulf to install KHII and upgraded electronics. That plan was in place because SDs without Apollo are just targets in a stand-up battle.

So who has the ships capable to stand up to them? The whole reason for that building plan was that it made no sense to build less capable ships when you can build more capable ships. It wasn't because the SLN or anyone else could magically mix it up with the RMN or RHN's SD(P)'s and hope for victory except for the MA as far as the GA knows.

SDs and forts are also just targets for known MAlign tech.

So is everything else... so whats your point?

ywing14 wrote:
Could you please point to me where in the Textev you're getting your 1200 SD(P)s from. No one is saying they won't finish what's in the process of being built. At least those that are far enough along in construction. But with the pasting Beowulf took there is no way to know if they've even be able to finish the interiors as planned as the ships were supposed to go there for completion.

In Chapter 7 of At All costs there is a discussion at a high-level meeting between the Queen and he senior uniformed officers. During the discussion they state that at the time(early 1919) they(The RMN) had 110 SD(P)’s in commission or under construction. It was noted that the GSN had 115 SD(P)’s in commission which is also presented in the fleet strength of 1920. The IAN had a strength of 42 SD(P)’s and 90 more under construction. The RMN’s estimate was that within 18 months they should have ~400 SD(P)s in active service between the RMN, IAN and GSN which leads me to believe that in 1919 the GSN had ~40 SD(P)s under construction. Between 1919 and the BoM there were no more than 30 SD(P)’s lost if I am not mistaking so that would indicate that during the BoM the Allied strength should be roughly 370 SD(P)’s. Assuming none of the lost up to that point(BoM) were IAN ships and the lost ships were spread equally between the GSN and RMN the Fleet strength should be somewhere in the neighbourhood of:

RMN: 95 SD(P)’s
GSN: 140 SD(P)’s
IAN: 130 SD(P)’s

In the BoM The Manticore Alliance lost 97 SD(P)’s. That is 48 SD(P)’s from Home Fleet and 49 SD(P)s from 3rd Fleet and one Squadron(6 SD(P)) from 8th Fleet.

So let us assume that the losses in Home Fleet and Third Fleet were equally distributed between the three allied navies, the end result is that after the BoM there should be:

RMN: 63 SD(P)’s
GSN: 110 SD(P)’s
IAN : 90 SD(P)’s
Assuming that the RMN and GSN managed to triple their SD(P) ships under construction between the two of them they should have been able to produce another 150 SD(P)’s before Oyster Bay destroyed their infrastructure. If we split their new construction equally then the strength would be:

RMN: 138 SD(P)’s
GSN: 185 SD(P)’s

During OB we can safely assume that roughly 15% of those SD(P)’s were in for refit this would mean that post OB the RMN and GSN should have:

RMN: 118 SD(P)’s
GSN: 156 SD(P)’s
So The grand total for the GSN/RMN contribution to the GA would be 274 SD(P)’s. The distribution might be a little different if the GSN gave some new construction to the RMN to bolster their number and it might be off by 24 SD(P)’s since most of the RMN/GSN SD(P)s were less than 10 years old.
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The RHN Started the war with ~310 SD(P)’s, if those SD(P)’s were all designed and build in Bolthole between 1915 and 1919 then it would lead me to believe that Bolthole has the ability to build somewhere in the neighbourhood of 200-300 SD(P)’s at a time. If once the SD(P)’s are completed the RHN immediately lays down another ship Bolthole should have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 200-300 SD(P)’s under construction in 1919. The RMN estimated 400-450 SD(P)’s in bolthole alone but let’s use my numbers since they are much smaller. Then there are the rest of the RHN’s yards which would double the Bolthole ships under construction. RMN Estimate =800-900 for all ships under construction in 1919. Again let’s use a lower estimate and put it at 650-700 SD(P)’s under contraction by the RHN. That means that by OB the RHN should have using my numbers somewhere in the neighbourhood of 950 SD(P)’s.

On the other hand in Chapter 54 of At all costs the discussion for Beatrice shed some light on the RHN’s active strength before the BoM. They had 330 SD(P)’s slated for Beatrice and 620 SD(P)’s remaining behind because 100 would be working up, Haven and Bolthole need to be protected heavily just incase and this was before the battle of Love cost the RHN another 32 SD(P)s.

So with my numbers and theirs the RHN should have roughly 580-590 SD(P) in service assuming that every SD(P) that participated in the BoM was destroyed or damaged beyond repair even those captured.

So at the Point of the creation of the GA the fleet strength should be:

RHN: 580 SD(P)’s
GSN: 156 SD(P)’s
RMN: 118 SD(P)’s

For a total strength of 854 SD(P)’s between the 3 allied navies. Manticore and Grayson would obviously have no ships under construction after OB but haven should still have 400-800 SD(P)’s under construction depending on their finances.

When added up on the low end we are looking at 1200 SD(P)’s under construction or already in service on the high end we are looking at 1600 SD(P)’s under construction and in active service between the three of them. Between Bolthole and the rest of Haven’s yards they should have 600 SD(P)’s under construction if we took the middle of the two extremes. So the GA’s active wall should be 854 SD(P)’s and 600 under construction(RHN SD(P)’s).


As for the plan to build ships in Bolthole and Ship them to Beowulf for completion I doubt that anything was actually done. There was roughly 8 months between the decision to start and the end of the UH which means that in that time they would have had to redesign the SD(P)’s to be able to accommodate split construction and it is likely few were even laid down and guaranteed none were completed in the months.

You keep on bringing up the amount of people killed as your justification for this ridiculous fleet size.

Because in real life that would be the number one consideration. And which part of my suggestion is ridiculous? The one that the 60+ Systems of the SEM need more than 118 SD(P)’s to protect them? It would be ridiculous if I was suggesting the RMN maintain 1200 SD(P)’s but I am not, I am suggesting they maintain 300-400 SD(P)’s, enough for protection of their territory and meet their commitment to the GA and any systems they commit to defend.

However, all you have to do is look at the way in which this was brought about in order to realize that you don't need a huge fleet. Yawata Strike (small number of vessels) and Beowulf (bombs) any intelligence analyst is going to realize that who ever did this chose this manner because they lack the military might to carry out a conventional attack.

Or any Intelligence agency might come to the conclusion that everything done to get a war between the League and Manticore was done so as to paint Manticore as insane. It would hardly help the cause of the MA if they openly came out with a big fleet for the GA to have irrefutable proof.

Maybe the MA is operating with few naval assets of their own, or maybe they have a significant fleet of their own but are conducting their campaign in such a fashion for reasons no-one but the MA might understand.

It makes more sense to figure out a way to detect the spider drive prior to completing any more SD(P)s for the simple fact that the GA may have to redesign their ships in order to fight the spider drive equipped vessels.

And it might be easier to start over than redesigning ships that are already near completion.

The whole point is for the GA to not turn into the SLN which had several thousand worthless SDs that took up space.

And they wont, because they have a genuine reason to have those 1200+ SD(P)’s. They have 160-200 systems of their own to protect and a 20 year war as experience for how many ships they need to provide that protection. The RhNs SD(P)’s are still the best in the known galaxy excluding the RMN/GSN/IAN ships all of which happen to belong to the same alliance.

They would be better served to take the research they acquired from Gerrymeade, and there now combined staffs and see what kind of brand new ship they can design.

You are assuming anything that comes from captured research is going to be worth much. I doubt that the MA gave the SLN all of their dirty little secrets.

When they were at war with the SLN it made sense to go with what they had. But now that there is a strategic breather there isn't the same urgency to build the ships. Is there an urgency to find the MAlign? Yes, but to keep building SD(P)s no.

How is there any breather? The GA does not know where the MA is, or what they are planning. They don’t know their final goal and they don’t know all or even any of the actual players involved. They don’t know the MA’s strength or what they have under construction… so how could they have a breather of any sort? The MA might have seen an opportunity and taken it before they were ready, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a few hundred SD(P)’s of their own ready to pounce on the GA.

Where are you talking about all this money coming from? While they say the SEM's debt will be manageable it still indicated it would take them 20-30 years to pay it off. What happened in Manticore and Beowulf clearly indicates it doesn't matter how much you spend on defense bad things can still happen.

Manticore can start to bring their merchant ships back into the League since the Leagues members would be more than willing to welcome them back or take even more financial losses. That should go a long way to bring money into the GA’s coffers. But then there are likely a number of Core and Shell worlds that would willingly invest in the GA’s economy including one particular system that was saved from experiencing complete industrial destruction and massive loss of life by 5 RMN warships at the cost of 4 of those warships.


And as for the part about defence… you are 100% right. Problem is that the lower priority you place on defence the easier it is for bad things to happen.

There could have been 30,000 SD(P)s in Beowulf.

What about next time? What if the MA build 250 SD(P)s of their own and decided to attack the GA? You are looking at this from the point of view of what the enemy has done to this point. Problem is if you close the door on those kinds of attacks they might just decide to go toe to toe with your fleet.

Just because you think the enemy is attacking in ways that indicate that they are weak does not make them weak. They might be operating with a different set of criteria or beliefs. Or they might have reasons that make them behave in a certain fashion that you not knowing those reasons will find it illogical.

What you do for the sake of your people and economy is stand down your reservists and allow them to return to their civilian jobs. Return the fleet to more of a condition 2 status.

and if it comes out that you were infant wrong? What happens if the MA turns out to have 250 SD(P)s of their own? The RMN has a grand total of 120 SD(P)’s to cover Manticore, Trevors Star, Talbott and Silesia plus any other commitments they have. Not to mention having a detachment with the Grand Fleet incase the enemy base is discovered. When the RMN deploys 50 SD(P)s at home, 50 SD(P)s to the Grand Fleet and 20 SD(P)s to cover the other 55 systems of the Empire how well would that work out.

Of course the characters in the GA and MAlign can make assumptions.... How else do you have a story if the characters in the books don't make any assumptions... But you've missed the textev where they've all discussed the MAlign's motives and while they don't know everything they have identified that the MAlign has a small military force and likely has a place similar to bolthole out there. They also know someone was providing the SLN with advanced weapons and their suspicions clearly indicated they didn't think it was techndyne. What me and basically everyone are saying is that the characters in the book are making rational decisions based on the information they have at hand. You want them to make irrational decisions that are based on facts.

The decision I am advocating for is based on their 20 years of experience and having absolutely NO hard information on the abilities of the enemy. They can’t assume that the MA is a small military organization if the GA just found out about them. If the MA is good enough to have no leaks during the 600 years of it’s existence I wouldn’t put too much credibility on my assumptions.

When push comes to shove I assume the worst and prepare for it to the best of my abilities. Now if the GA were to have 1,200 SD(P)’s for 200 systems that is in no way overkill.

If you take those 1,200 SD(P)s under construction or in active service and split them amongst the allies that would provide the best protection they can have at the moment and still allow them the ability to rebuild.

If the RHN maintain 400-600 SD(P)’s since they have the most territory and industry to protect, the RMN maintain 350 SD(P)’s since they have a far flung empire and commitments that would extend to quite a few verge, protectorates and core/shell systems and Beowulf, Grayson and other smaller allies maintain the other 350 SD(P)’s between them I don’t think anyone would be overly burdened and there would be sufficient ships to provide defence of the GA’s territory and still allow for a significant fleet to attack the MA when they find it.


Taking 118 SD(P)’s an demobilizing a bunch of them while there is an enemy of unknown strength, location industrial/economic capabilities or size out there willing to kill civilians by the tens of millions at a time would be the hight of criminal behaviour for any government.

What you are suggesting is that Manticore should demobilize and give the MA a chance to beat them in a straight up fight as well as those sneaky actions they have done to this point.

ldwechsler wrote:
In space war, it's the tech that has real meaning, not just the numbers.

Technological inferior ships with enough numbers can hold their own as long as the technological gap is not too great. And just because there were so many advances in the 40-60 years preceding the war with the SLN doesn't mean that there would be such game changing advances in the next 40 years.

The Situation as of the end of UH is that the SLN is defeated by the GA but is also aware of the existence of a third Party. The League government has fallen and is being rebuild around Deputy Attorney General Rorendaal, Admiral Kingsford, Brigadier Gaddis and his people with oversight by the GA. The SLN and what is likely to become the core of a civilian government for the League is likely aware of the activities of an unknown third party. It would be in their best interest to strengthen their economic, industrial and military position as soon as possible.


Due to Buccaneer the League can be expected/encouraged to assist financially in rebuilding the systems they attacked and the industry they destroyed. This would likely bind those systems closer to the GA as it would be apparent at whose urging that is being done. More to this is the fact that there are now many trans-stellar corporation who will be desperate and could be encouraged to invest and assist in the industrialization process of the SEM’s new systems as well as the verge systems the SEM was forced to help. The trans-stellars will be allowed to invest and operate in those areas under strict conditions. Some will refuse while many others will be more than willing to jump on the lifeboat that is presented to them. The Systems that are homes to those Trans-Stellars will in many cases be willing to also prop up those corporations while they are being restructured and assist them in the rebuilding process.


The Republic of Haven has all of its industry still functioning minus the parts that were destroyed by the Manticore alliance during the war. They have somewhere in he neighbourhood of 580 SD(P)’s in active service, and likely over 600 more under construction. The RHN cannot sustain a fleet of 1200 SD(P)’s those new SD(P)’s should be distributed to the GA member navies. The RHN would have the infrastructure for refits and general maintenance for those SD(P)’s they sell/gift to their allies and will benefit from basically all of the maintenance needs of the ships for the foreseeable future. The Republic’s economy would benefit greatly from the opening of the junction and the assistance it would be giving to Manticore and Grayson to rebuild. Since the republic would likely represent the largest single industrial asset of the alliance they would naturally be forced to protect it. Protection would be in the form of fixed defences but also significant mobile assets to help reinforce a systems defences and take the fight to the enemy. The single most important system to defend would be the Bolthole system thus that alone would require a significant GA presence.

The SEM has suffered a great setback with the destruction of most of it’s industry, but for the moment they have an ability to take a breath because Haven is there to support them and thus the SEM can focus on rebuilding some of it’s industry first and foremost. With the reopening of markets in the League the SEM economy would start to recover which would assist with the modernization of the Republic’s Industry and the new systems of the SEM as well. At the moment the RMN has somewhere in the neighbourhood of 118-140 SD(P)’s to protect a far flung empire numbering some 50-60 systems as well as having commitments to protect a number of core/shell/protectorate/verge systems. This will not be enough to guarantee the protection of 10 systems let alone 60 or more. Over the next few years the RMN should do anything and everything in it’s power to build up its manpower from both Silesia and Talbott utilizing their allied militaries such as the GSN and BDF both of which can assist with bringing up potential recruits to a standard allowing them to become RMN members. The goal of the RMN should be to build up a fleet of 350-400 SD(P)’s in active service to protect their Talbott territories, their Silesia territories and the old SKM plus whatever commitments they have to other systems. Having 140 SD(P)s to do that would be impossible. The first priority would be provide security to Manticore itself which would eat a large % of the available ships leaving little for the other territories of the empire plus commitments to allies and the GA. It does not need to be done overnight, but it does need to be done as soon as humanly possible.

The Protectorate of Grayson is in a position much different from the SEM. They have but one system to protect so they can infect reduce their fleet to represent a much more acceptable force for a one system fleet. They can use the manpower that is demobilized from the ships to assist in the training system of the RMN. With the opening of trade with Haven they should focus on rebuilding their industry and assisting the SEM with the buildup of their new territories as soon as they have the means to do so. Maintaining a force of 80 SD(P)’s should be enough to provide a system defence powerful enough to deter any enemy and provide ships for a GA fleet to attack the MA when their location is discovered.


Beowulf on the other hand also has a lot of rebuilding to do. They might remain independent uniting with their daughter colonies or join the SEM but at the end of the day they will be forced to invest in rebuilding their industry and building up their military. If they become part of the SEM that would assist greatly in the RMN’s manpower problems or if they become/remain independent they could pick up SD(P)’s from Haven in order to make their fleet equal capable as those of their allies. Beowulf as a single system navy might require similar fleet strength as the GSN or a little more, but Beowulf united with her colonies will require much more depending on the number of colonies and their industrial capabilities. Having a nation of 4 or 5 core systems would them to maintain a fleet of 150-200 SD(P)’s.


The fleet breakdown as of the end of UH is:

RMN:118 SD(P)’s
GSN: 156 SD(P)’s
RHN: 580 SD(P)’s
BDF: 36 SDs

For a grand total of 890 SD(P)’s with the new construction from Haven allows the re-armament of the BDF with modern ships.


What the GA knows about the MA:
-They have been planning something for a few hundred years
-they have technology that the GA has not developed
-they tried to get the SEM, Republic of Haven and the League to destroy each other.
-they use nano-technology to kill people
-they have people high in the Leagues government and military
-and they are willing to kill people by the tens of millions

What the GA does NOT know about the MA:
-The military strength of the MA
-The industrial strength of the MA
-Member systems
-What their ultimate goal is(destruction of all who don’t conform to their beliefs, enslavement etc…)
-why they act the way they do(is it because they are weaker than the GA or are there other factors that the GA does not know about.



Throughout the series we have time and again been presented with the policy of the RMN to proper and train for situations that are harder then they expect to actually face. This means that they have to build their military along the same lines, being able to meet any threat they can conceive of.

Assuming that the MA is a militarily weak system and acting with that belief could very well turnout disastrous for the RMN specifically and the GA in general. When they don’t know how many ships the MA has, how many ships they have under construction or even if they have allies to rely on the only response is the build of military forces. Ignoring the situation and starting a build up after the MA starts the next phase of their plan could be too late. Building up your manpower and fleet before a war is better then trying to fight a war with inferior numbers while trying to build up as quick as possible.


The only thing I can envision for the RMN would be to remove as many of their forts as they can safely out of commission and transfer the available manpower to the mobile fleet. Build up their fleet from there. The end result 4-5 years down the road should be:

RHN:500 SD(P)’s
RMN:350-400 SD(P)’s
GSN:80 SD(P)’s
BDF:200 SD(P)’s (assuming they unite with their former colonies into one nation)

For a total of ~1200 SD(P)s, there would be enough to protect the GA and take the fight to the enemy.

Weird Harold wrote:
No I'm saying that for the next 5 or 10 years, the GA is going to need smaller ships for traditional Cruiser duties. In 5 or 10 years, the GA's many cruisers are going to be a match for anything built to counter SD(p)s.

Sigs wrote:How do you reach that conclusion?

The GA has more cruiser-level commitments than SD(P) commitments. LAC/Apollo/Mycroft will suffice for heavy system defense and Cruisers with MK-16G or improvements will suffice for any power-projection needs.


The Current MK-16G is as destructive as pre-war or SLN Capitol Ship warheads with twice to three times the powered range.

There's no reason that incremental improvements should stop and limit the GA to MK-16 Mod G Technology for warheads, but just spreading that technology to all missile types would make the ships more dangerous than they are now.

While the MAlign scrambles to match UH level GA (and Andermani) tech the GA and Andermani are going to be doing at least incremental improvements and learn to detect Spider Drives.

If the tech levels are frozen (unlikely) the MAlign inflicts a lot of casualties, but loses.

If the Tech Levels advance in incremental stages from known tech levels -- with the spread of FTL, MDM and LAC tech -- the MAlign inflicts fewer casualties and still loses.

SDs and SD(P)s are going the way of the Big Gun battleships in the real world -- to mothballs and scrap-yards.

Sigs, why would Beowulf need to rebuild their industry? They lost one nanofarm and 3 civilian stations?

Joat42 wrote:Sigs, why would Beowulf need to rebuild their industry? They lost one nanofarm and 3 civilian stations?

One Nanofarm, yes, but the three civilian stations were their largest (and oldest) stations, measuring in the kilometers. Stations that size have to have industrial sections even if only for maintenance purposes and given the whole workforce travel issue, I would be shocked if the three stations in question did not boast quite a few non-military manufactories.
I do agree that the military manufacturing stations would be completely separate from the three destroyed stations (different orbits at the very least) but Beowulf lost a huge chunk of their population and general manufacturing abilities when the MAlign pulled their Evil Plan (TM) using their throwaway agent.

J, I think that your question is sorta like saying "Why would America need to rebuild their industry? They only lost everything in California and Texas, they still have another 48 states to draw upon..."

(US State Manufactoring statistics link here)