[Spoilers] The Missing scene?

Slneezy wrote:

pappilon wrote:
Wait! Are we calling Elizabeth III a tin pot dictator? IIRC HMY Duke of Cromarty is one of those gold plated SD's

Isn't Elizabeth's ship a podnought?

At the very least it'd be a lot faster and better armed than any SLN SD.

HMS Cromarty is a BC(P).

Eagleeye wrote:
HMS Cromarty is a BC(P).

Still considerably more combat capable than a SLN SD and vastly more efficient overall.

Slneezy wrote:There's a limit for white elephant prestige spending - at least for people that don't want the same treatment as the Legislaturalists.

A SD as an yacht would be pretty ruinous for a poor system.

When SLN SDs are going for scrap prices, it isn't going to be much of a stretch for even very poor systems. Especially if it just a Flagship that never goes anywhere except for an occasional State Visit.

Slneezy wrote:The first pod layers were converted cargo ships. If one such ship can whack a squad of SDs you'll bet a lot more people are going to invest in those rather than in obsolete SDs. That's made worse by how manpower intensive SLN's SDs are compared to their long range punch.

But nobody is going to buy a [shudder] merchant ship to impress anyone. Something like HMAMC Wayfarer isn't impressive until it starts shooting at someone at which point impressing and intimidating your neighbor is pretty much a lost cause.

IIRC, A ferry crew for a Scientist or Vega class SD has been estimated at a minimum of 1,000 trained personnel. Maybe half that for a Harbor watch. Either is easily in reach for any system that can afford scrap prices for an SD in the first place. If all you want to do is impress people, you only need to maintain essential systems, the Flag Deck and the Bridge once you get it home.

If you need to fully man your SD and take it into combat, you've basically failed in the purpose of a "Prestige Ship." A "Prestige Ship" is about perception and not about functionality or practicality.

The bottom line is that there will be a market for just about any military hardware someone is willing to sell -- and even a few things the owners don't know they are selling. Practicality won't always enter into the decision-making process, and many purchases will be driven by Ego and Pride.

Weird Harold wrote:
But nobody is going to buy a [shudder] merchant ship to impress anyone. Something like HMAMC Wayfarer isn't impressive until it starts shooting at someone at which point impressing and intimidating your neighbor is pretty much a lost cause.

IIRC, A ferry crew for a Scientist or Vega class SD has been estimated at a minimum of 1,000 trained personnel. Maybe half that for a Harbor watch. Either is easily in reach for any system that can afford scrap prices for an SD in the first place. If all you want to do is impress people, you only need to maintain essential systems, the Flag Deck and the Bridge once you get it home.

If you need to fully man your SD and take it into combat, you've basically failed in the purpose of a "Prestige Ship." A "Prestige Ship" is about perception and not about functionality or practicality.

The bottom line is that there will be a market for just about any military hardware someone is willing to sell -- and even a few things the owners don't know they are selling. Practicality won't always enter into the decision-making process, and many purchases will be driven by Ego and Pride.

My bad on the Cromarty

Sure, not every newly enthroned leader of a former OFS protectorate will care much for the prestege of a Scientist Class SD as System 1 (Barregos) but there will be the few who still view the SDP as their personal checking account, and the palace guard as their personal security force and crew for the GY Eponymous. And there will be some enterprising fleet admiral out there so used to gaming the system that he will gladly peel off one or two of the NCN (new constitution navy)SDs to meet the demand. I mean its not like accountability will suddenly be a thing.

pappilon wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
But nobody is going to buy a [shudder] merchant ship to impress anyone. Something like HMAMC Wayfarer isn't impressive until it starts shooting at someone at which point impressing and intimidating your neighbor is pretty much a lost cause.

IIRC, A ferry crew for a Scientist or Vega class SD has been estimated at a minimum of 1,000 trained personnel. Maybe half that for a Harbor watch. Either is easily in reach for any system that can afford scrap prices for an SD in the first place. If all you want to do is impress people, you only need to maintain essential systems, the Flag Deck and the Bridge once you get it home.

If you need to fully man your SD and take it into combat, you've basically failed in the purpose of a "Prestige Ship." A "Prestige Ship" is about perception and not about functionality or practicality.

The bottom line is that there will be a market for just about any military hardware someone is willing to sell -- and even a few things the owners don't know they are selling. Practicality won't always enter into the decision-making process, and many purchases will be driven by Ego and Pride.

My bad on the Cromarty

Sure, not every newly enthroned leader of a former OFS protectorate will care much for the prestege of a Scientist Class SD as System 1 (Barregos) but there will be the few who still view the SDP as their personal checking account, and the palace guard as their personal security force and crew for the GY Eponymous. And there will be some enterprising fleet admiral out there so used to gaming the system that he will gladly peel off one or two of the NCN (new constitution navy)SDs to meet the demand. I mean its not like accountability will suddenly be a thing.

Given how badly the League has just been bitten in the arse, it wouldn't surprise me to see accountability become very much a thing

Don

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pappilon wrote:Sure, not every newly enthroned leader of a former OFS protectorate will care much for the prestege of a Scientist Class SD as System 1 (Barregos) but there will be the few who still view the SDP as their personal checking account, and the palace guard as their personal security force and crew for the GY Eponymous.

You're not thinking like a "big frog in a small pond." The kind of tin-pot dictator that can't afford something effective, but can buy the designation of Superdreadnought and have a navy with a Superdreadnought for a flagship.

pappilon wrote:And there will be some enterprising fleet admiral out there so used to gaming the system that he will gladly peel off one or two of the NCN (new constitution navy)SDs to meet the demand. I mean its not like accountability will suddenly be a thing.

You're still thinking in terms of an effective warship -- Prestige Ships don't have to be effective warships to be effective status symbols. A NCN SDp would be far beyond the budget of someone looking for status symbol; if such a person could afford one NCN SDp, they'd probably buy ten or twenty Scientist or Vega class SDs just for the spare parts to keep a squadron in service with harbor watch crews.

Weird Harold wrote:

Slneezy wrote:There's a limit for white elephant prestige spending - at least for people that don't want the same treatment as the Legislaturalists.

A SD as an yacht would be pretty ruinous for a poor system.

When SLN SDs are going for scrap prices, it isn't going to be much of a stretch for even very poor systems. Especially if it just a Flagship that never goes anywhere except for an occasional State Visit.

Still, enough of a skeleton crew to get one SLN SD to move takes more trained space-going crew than your typical Verge navy has.

drothgery wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:When SLN SDs are going for scrap prices, it isn't going to be much of a stretch for even very poor systems. Especially if it just a Flagship that never goes anywhere except for an occasional State Visit.

Still, enough of a skeleton crew to get one SLN SD to move takes more trained space-going crew than your typical Verge navy has.

I think most tin-pot dictators could scare up a thousand spacers; if not, they can probably afford to hire a thousand, or so, training cadre/delivery crew.

Weird Harold wrote:
I think most tin-pot dictators could scare up a thousand spacers; if not, they can probably afford to hire a thousand, or so, training cadre/delivery crew.

We're not talking the old style tin pot dictators who didn't even own one, we're talking Nouveau dictators post OFS, probably a former OFS Governor and his Fleet Admiral henchman. They drive their CA flagship to the nearest BF staging planet, get into a hot Friday night poker game and walk away with a Scientist SD and crew.

But most Verge planets didn't even have more than a handful of LACs for customs patrols. Heck IIRC there was one System with a wHJ that only had a few LACs. Zunker, maybe? Enough spacers for a SD? give me 5 years and maybe ... yeah.

pappilon wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
I think most tin-pot dictators could scare up a thousand spacers; if not, they can probably afford to hire a thousand, or so, training cadre/delivery crew.

We're not talking the old style tin pot dictators who didn't even own one, we're talking Nouveau dictators post OFS, probably a former OFS Governor and his Fleet Admiral henchman. They drive their CA flagship to the nearest BF staging planet, get into a hot Friday night poker game and walk away with a Scientist SD and crew.

But most Verge planets didn't even have more than a handful of LACs for customs patrols. Heck IIRC there was one System with a wHJ that only had a few LACs. Zunker, maybe? Enough spacers for a SD? give me 5 years and maybe ... yeah.

If they're Frontier Fleet they certainly won't want SDs. They can get and man multiple faster, more adequately armed Nevadas more easily at a far smaller maintenance cost.

The only ones who will want century old Scientists will be the real megalomaniacs - the ones who are only tangentially in touch with reality.