Sidearms

PeterZ wrote:Now that the tree cats have proven they can learn to shoot, will mini-pulsers be supplied to the clans? The clans will have supplied body guards for humans. They and the body guards should be compensated. Otherwise, it sets the precedent for not paying tree cats.

So what will the 'cat enclaves on Sphynx look like when next we visit the Honorverse?

I can see them having power tools, manufactured tree-homes, clan owned greenhouses and computers. Yes, computers. By the time the Raoul reaches adulthood, the 'cats will have mastered reading and writing. That means they can use computers to better communicate with everyone.

Will they then be ready to further hire out their services? Nannies, policecats, interrogators, legal aides for lawyers and a host of other professions.

Heck, I can see treecasts wreaking havoc on Sphynxian lawyers. The opposing lawyer has the 'cat parsing any answers in a deposition to direct followup inquiries. On Harrington Steading, the magistrate will have their own lie detectors to parse what the participants in the court are saying.

I really wonder what the future holds for the Honorverse.

And you will probably have the equivalents of Treecat Amish - clans that see the old ways as the best ways and live that simple lifestyle their forefathers have for "hands of hands of turnings".

Theemile wrote:
And you will probably have the equivalents of Treecat Amish - clans that see the old ways as the best ways and live that simple lifestyle their forefathers have for "hands of hands of turnings".

Ayup. However, the traditonal clans will not turn their nose at the benefits of modernity. I don't get the idea that 'cats find some moral benefit from a traditional lifestyle. More like some cats will be seriously uncomfortable with the mental changes necessary to adopt the technology and lifestyles.

PeterZ wrote:

Theemile wrote:
And you will probably have the equivalents of Treecat Amish - clans that see the old ways as the best ways and live that simple lifestyle their forefathers have for "hands of hands of turnings".

Ayup. However, the traditonal clans will not turn their nose at the benefits of modernity. I don't get the idea that 'cats find some moral benefit from a traditional lifestyle. More like some cats will be seriously uncomfortable with the mental changes necessary to adopt the technology and lifestyles.

so more Ludite, than Amish analogs. Probably so, we havn't seen anything like a Treecat religion with super strict morals and folkways.

Ludcat does sound more apropos.

I wonder if Nimitz and Sam's kits will adapt to technology more naturally? They would be the first cats to grow up around humans and with human technology. Will they be able to shift their thinking to one that uses much more symbolism? Math is symbolism just as language is. 'Cats have never needed symbols to facilitate their understanding of the world. Direct memories passed from generation to generation have always sufficed. That is not enough when trying to understand human technology, much of which can't be directly experienced.

The kits may learn to understand human technology in ways their elders never could.

Can you imagine treecat duels...at 50 paces?

Don

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Maldorian wrote:Take a Five-Seven. Uses said Five Point Seven Milimeter Bullets from the Belgish P90 submashine Gun.

Should be a reason why this gun is forbidden for free sale even in Weapon Country nummer one, the United States. If I remember correct, the reason is, because the Five-Seven Ammo is Armor piercing, something Cops don´t like to see.

It's not. The AP ammo is restricted.

n7axw wrote:Can you imagine treecat duels...at 50 paces?

Don

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No. Treecat duels would be up close and personal. Fang and claw, doncha know.

Maldorian wrote:Take a Five-Seven. Uses said Five Point Seven Milimeter Bullets from the Belgish P90 submashine Gun.

Should be a reason why this gun is forbidden for free sale even in Weapon Country nummer one, the United States. If I remember correct, the reason is, because the Five-Seven Ammo is Armor piercing, something Cops don´t like to see.

And you shouldn´t forget: What use has a big gun, if you knock yourself out with the recoil of the gun. Firepower isn´t erverything. You have to control that power or it is useless.

That be said, my personal opinion is, that .50 guns are useless, because your enemy with a small gun has killed you alredy 5 times before you can hit him. You couldn´t targeting good and fast with a heavy gun and the first shoot breakes your balance, so if you miss, your enemy has his chance to kill you.

It is like the most things in life: you need the balance between the extreme sides!

In case of weapons, the balance between firepower and handling.

The Five-Seven is available on the civilian market.

What's not available is the AP ammo that makes it effective. Without that ammo, it's a slightly supped up centerfire version of a .22mag. Lots of velocity but no bullet weight to maintain that momentum.

Velocity is only half the formula, weight is the other half. Heavy bullets shed their momentum more slowly than light ones, so light bullets have to go faster to make up for it. Heavy bullets don't have to be going as fast to do significant damage.

Case in point, the 'buffalo gun' rifle cartridges of the 1870's. Stupendously heavy bullets in comparison to modern rifle rounds. bullets weighing 400 or 500gr weren't unusual for the .45 and .50's. Ridiculously low velocities in comparison, too. Many were just barely supersonic at the muzzle. Shouldn't be effective or accurate at range? Right?

Yet they were used to drive the largest land animal on the continent to the verge of extinction in just a few short years and were used for the first 1000 yard matches.

An account of some testing of Buffalo gun rounds using state of the art, modern equipment.

http://powderburns.tripod.com/sharps.html

An account of the first Creedmoor match in 1874. Note the Irish were using muzzleloaders.

http://longrangebpcr.com/TCFacts.htm

AS for how fast once can shoot heavy guns and big bore rounds, might I suggest you watch Jerry Miculek's 12 shot world record run over on Youtube?

He's shooting an N Frame Smith and Wesson revolver (a Model 625 variant, to be precise) and shooting .45ACP. Nobody's ever called an N frame Smith anything but a big gun. Until they came out with the X frame for the .500 S&W a few years ago, it was the largest revolver that Smith and Wesson made.

As for bore diameter, I carry a .45 because they haven't came out with a .46 or .47 yet.

My oldest son was into silhouette shooting for a while. For that you need a pistol with a high muzzle energy to ensure the metal targets dropped. His answer was a cut down bolt action .308. The shortened barrel made it loud, but the thing worked. More kick than a long barreled Blackhawk .44 mag.

PeterZ wrote:Ludcat does sound more apropos.

I wonder if Nimitz and Sam's kits will adapt to technology more naturally? They would be the first cats to grow up around humans and with human technology. Will they be able to shift their thinking to one that uses much more symbolism? Math is symbolism just as language is. 'Cats have never needed symbols to facilitate their understanding of the world. Direct memories passed from generation to generation have always sufficed. That is not enough when trying to understand human technology, much of which can't be directly experienced.

The kits may learn to understand human technology in ways their elders never could.

What you said just resonated with me in a way I never realized before. Treecats can't think abstractly, because their entire existence is memories or thoughts of actual objects or events. there are no "ifs", but stories of "when". No abstractions, only examples. Liberty is literally the feeling after escaping a trap or intense danger. Death is Literally the feeling of someone you know dying.

So if they don't have an example of it, comprehending it is totally alien to them.

So placeholders (like variables) literally do not exist for Treecats.