[Spoilers] The Missing scene?

PeterZ wrote:Yeah, even using Haven's pre-Grand Alliance systems would be better than anything the SLN had. Heck, from podnoughts, to carriers to Cimetere LAC, those ships are valuable to anyone without Alliance first line tech.

The Anderman Empire and Erewhon/Maya have shipyards and tech comparable to "Manticore Lite" or better. The Andermani even have Keyhole II and their own version of FTL comms.

The near future is going to be a Golden Age for arms merchants of all stripes. Manticore and Haven have a current edge in LAC/CLAC technology and doctrine, but that's not going to last long once the idea of "Super LACs" seeps into old school SL military types.

The monster SysDef missiles Technodyne provided Monica are sufficient for most defensive purposes; paired with a Moriarty copy they are easily within the current Solarian military tech. (As the first stage of a three stage Cataphract SysDef design, they might even compete with Apollo for range and accel.)

[Snip]

Weird Harold wrote:The near future is going to be a Golden Age for arms merchants of all stripes. Manticore and Haven have a current edge in LAC/CLAC technology and doctrine, but that's not going to last long once the idea of "Super LACs" seeps into old school SL military types.

Selling what? top of the line SL missiles and whatever ships were not outright destroyed in military operations? obsolete whatever Sarnow has not blowed up in Siesia? I'm not sure very many Arms dealers will have access to even second tier GA weapons,

I suppose there is Mannerheim and the RF selling out of their second tier stuff, or manufactured for export.

Weird Harold wrote: The monster SysDef missiles Technodyne provided Monica are sufficient for most defensive purposes; paired with a Moriarty copy they are easily within the current Solarian military tech. (As the first stage of a three stage Cataphract SysDef design, they might even compete with Apollo for range and accel.)

Except they have garbage accuracy once they outrun their control links.

pappilon wrote:[Snip]

Weird Harold wrote:The near future is going to be a Golden Age for arms merchants of all stripes. Manticore and Haven have a current edge in LAC/CLAC technology and doctrine, but that's not going to last long once the idea of "Super LACs" seeps into old school SL military types.

Selling what? top of the line SL missiles and whatever ships were not outright destroyed in military operations? obsolete whatever Sarnow has not blowed up in Siesia? I'm not sure very many Arms dealers will have access to even second tier GA weapons.

Selling anything that they can convince someone to buy.

Second-hand SLN cruisers and missiles are enough for anti-piracy and commerce protection against anyone except the GA and Andermani.

Anyone who comes up with something they can tout as being the equal of of better than GA tech is going to find a market. Not everything is going to be as good as someone like "Charles" claims it will be, but Caveat Emptor.

pappilon wrote:[Snip]

Weird Harold wrote:The near future is going to be a Golden Age for arms merchants of all stripes. Manticore and Haven have a current edge in LAC/CLAC technology and doctrine, but that's not going to last long once the idea of "Super LACs" seeps into old school SL military types.

Selling what? top of the line SL missiles and whatever ships were not outright destroyed in military operations? obsolete whatever Sarnow has not blowed up in Siesia? I'm not sure very many Arms dealers will have access to even second tier GA weapons.

Selling anything that they can convince someone to buy.

Second-hand SLN cruisers and missiles are enough for anti-piracy and commerce protection against anyone except the GA and Andermani.

Anyone who comes up with something they can tout as being the equal of of better than GA tech is going to find a market. Not everything is going to be as good as someone like "Charles" claims it will be, but Caveat Emptor.[/quote][quote="Weird Harold"]

I agree that current SLN cruisers (CLs to BCs) will come cheap and be adequate to keep pirates at bay. Heck, Pirates will be buying those cruisers! They won't want anything close to a equal fight. There are enough of them to give every ex-Protectorate and Verge system an anti-privacy patrol. There aren't enough to provide a serious deterrence to any sort of conquest.

The New SLN will want to upgrade asap. Since they are getting out of the business of sucking the life's blood out of the neobrabs, they will have significant different mission priorities and fleet mix requirements. Their outdated cruisers are export ready.

Regional multi-stellar alliances may well need new hardware that can approximate GA capabilities..That means pre-Apollo RHN, Andermani, Erewhon and old Manticoran Alliance cast offs will be The Thing in military systems for non-Alliance members.

[Snip]

Weird Harold wrote:The near future is going to be a Golden Age for arms merchants of all stripes. Manticore and Haven have a current edge in LAC/CLAC technology and doctrine, but that's not going to last long once the idea of "Super LACs" seeps into old school SL military types.

pappilon wrote:Selling what? top of the line SL missiles and whatever ships were not outright destroyed in military operations? obsolete whatever Sarnow has not blowed up in Siesia? I'm not sure very many Arms dealers will have access to even second tier GA weapons.

PeterZ wrote:Selling anything that they can convince someone to buy.

Second-hand SLN cruisers and missiles are enough for anti-piracy and commerce protection against anyone except the GA and Andermani.

Anyone who comes up with something they can tout as being the equal of of better than GA tech is going to find a market. Not everything is going to be as good as someone like "Charles" claims it will be, but Caveat Emptor.

Weird Harold wrote:
I agree that current SLN cruisers (CLs to BCs) will come cheap and be adequate to keep pirates at bay. Heck, Pirates will be buying those cruisers! They won't want anything close to a equal fight. There are enough of them to give every ex-Protectorate and Verge system an anti-privacy patrol. There aren't enough to provide a serious deterrence to any sort of conquest.

The New SLN will want to upgrade asap. Since they are getting out of the business of sucking the life's blood out of the neobrabs, they will have significant different mission priorities and fleet mix requirements. Their outdated cruisers are export ready.

Regional multi-stellar alliances may well need new hardware that can approximate GA capabilities..That means pre-Apollo RHN, Andermani, Erewhon and old Manticoran Alliance cast offs will be The Thing in military systems for non-Alliance members.

So, pretty much anything not streak drive, which, I am assuming the Ga will put into production as soon as feasible? Or will the GA patent & monetize the streak drive, daring the MA to come out of hiding to defend its own patents?

We are assuming the 'Verse will be the chaotic place of The Wild Wild West, the very environment the Renaissance Factor is depending on to grow its MAlignancy. We shall see.

I can't see the GA selling off their decommissioned ships or even building export models.

pappilon wrote:[Snip]

So, pretty much anything not streak drive, which, I am assuming the Ga will put into production as soon as feasible? Or will the GA patent & monetize the streak drive, daring the MA to come out of hiding to defend its own patents?

We are assuming the 'Verse will be the chaotic place of The Wild Wild West, the very environment the Renaissance Factor is depending on to grow its MAlignancy. We shall see.

I can't see the GA selling off their decommissioned ships or even building export models.

Someone will sell warships to the ex-Protectorates and the Verge. Certainly the SLN will sell off their excess ships. They won't need all those ships to patrol the New League members. There aren't anymore Protectorates to pacify. Many of those buyers will be pirates.

So, will there be demand for better warships? Yes, there will be. Will there be star systems closer to the GA? Certainly. Why shouldn't these star systems get a better class of ships? Mothballed, those decommissioned cruisers don't advance the GA's goals. Sold to friendly powers, they can be. This is especially true for RHN surplus ships.

pappilon wrote:We are assuming the 'Verse will be the chaotic place of The Wild Wild West, the very environment the Renaissance Factor is depending on to grow its MAlignancy. We shall see.

The (reformed) League isn't going to be terribly chaotic, but with OFS and Frontier Fleet withdrawn from the Verge, there is a power vacuum that is going to require warships (or at least decent system defense installations) to survive.

pappilon wrote:I can't see the GA selling off their decommissioned ships or even building export models.

The GA can either compete or cede the boom market (pun intended) to other arms merchants. Manticore has war bonds to pay off and infrastructure to rebuild -- a brisk trade in "Manticore Lite" and surplus/obsolete military hardware could do a lot to raise funds to rebuild.

PeterZ wrote:Someone will sell warships to the ex-Protectorates and the Verge. Certainly the SLN will sell off their excess ships. They won't need all those ships to patrol the New League members. There aren't anymore Protectorates to pacify. Many of those buyers will be pirates.

SLN ships are pretty manpower intensive though.

I can see pirates or third rate navies wanting light units but the SLNs grossly obsolete SDs and BCs are at most good for tech samples - they'd be extremely expensive to man and maintain otherwise.

Slneezy wrote:I can see pirates or third rate navies wanting light units but the SLNs grossly obsolete SDs and BCs are at most good for tech samples - they'd be extremely expensive to man and maintain otherwise.

It's hard to put a price on Status Symbols. Having a bigger, more luxurious flagship (yacht) than your neighbor is worth any cost or hardship to some people.

Weird Harold wrote:

Slneezy wrote:I can see pirates or third rate navies wanting light units but the SLNs grossly obsolete SDs and BCs are at most good for tech samples - they'd be extremely expensive to man and maintain otherwise.

It's hard to put a price on Status Symbols. Having a bigger, more luxurious flagship (yacht) than your neighbor is worth any cost or hardship to some people.

I can see the bcs as having value for the job of dealing with pirates aund other opponents not in possession on the GA's latest and greatest. The Nevadas and Indifatigables received their updates more faithfully than the sds and had a lot more use.

Don

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