Sidearms

Before the Manticoran alliance made pulsers available to the various Steadholder's Guards, did they have a ".45 ACP vs 9mm Parabellum" war?

Fox2! wrote:Before the Manticoran alliance made pulsers available to the various Steadholder's Guards, did they have a ".45 ACP vs 9mm Parabellum" war?

IIRC, Grayson favored a 10mm auto-loader for steadholder guards.

There are endless options for small caliber rounds. I doubt someone who went back to muzzle loading matchlocks really could or would decide to duplicate things lost in prehistory.

kzt wrote:There are endless options for small caliber rounds. I doubt someone who went back to muzzle loading matchlocks really could or would decide to duplicate things lost in prehistory.

Well you could get some SCA fanatics. Have you ever been to a ACW or AWI reenactment. I've also seen pictures of ECW reenactments in England.

saber964 wrote:

kzt wrote:There are endless options for small caliber rounds. I doubt someone who went back to muzzle loading matchlocks really could or would decide to duplicate things lost in prehistory.

Well you could get some SCA fanatics. Have you ever been to a ACW or AWI reenactment. I've also seen pictures of ECW reenactments in England.

Which one would that have been - Unlike the US, they had a fair number of them. And that doesn't include uprisings from people that are now be considered British but weren't then. And who are currently considering a political uprising in regards to Brexit.

Fox2! wrote:Before the Manticoran alliance made pulsers available to the various Steadholder's Guards, did they have a ".45 ACP vs 9mm Parabellum" war?

Because Honor was given a Model 1911 type pistol by Admiral Matthews of Grayson, we know that the .45ACP round was in use on that planet. We aren't explicitly told, however, what caliber was in standard use for police/military. LaFollet said he'd carried a "chem-burner", but he also seemed to think that Honor's .45 was overdoing it a bit, so I suspect that the Graysons had kept alive the 9mm round that was so common on Old Earth.

There may have been "caliber conflicts" among Grayson shooters, simply because people are human and will debate damn near anything. They probably argued over their beer about the merits of Ford, Chevy and Dodge ground cars.

The 10mm round is spoken of as a standard duelling caliber on Manticore, and I believe that the handguns used in the Sphinx outback were 10mms in the Stephanie Harrington series. That's the only places I recall it being cited specifically. I have no idea why you wouldn't carry a pulser or flechette gun if you expected to meet hexapumas and peak bears, unless you expected the noise of a powder-burning gunshot to drive them off without having to kill them.

Old Earth, of course, probably still has guys who will bore you to death over the superiority of the .357 SIG round.

dscott8 wrote:

Fox2! wrote:Before the Manticoran alliance made pulsers available to the various Steadholder's Guards, did they have a ".45 ACP vs 9mm Parabellum" war?

Because Honor was given a Model 1911 type pistol by Admiral Matthews of Grayson, we know that the .45ACP round was in use on that planet. We aren't explicitly told, however, what caliber was in standard use for police/military. LaFollet said he'd carried a "chem-burner", but he also seemed to think that Honor's .45 was overdoing it a bit, so I suspect that the Graysons had kept alive the 9mm round that was so common on Old Earth.

There may have been "caliber conflicts" among Grayson shooters, simply because people are human and will debate damn near anything. They probably argued over their beer about the merits of Ford, Chevy and Dodge ground cars.

The 10mm round is spoken of as a standard duelling caliber on Manticore, and I believe that the handguns used in the Sphinx outback were 10mms in the Stephanie Harrington series. That's the only places I recall it being cited specifically. I have no idea why you wouldn't carry a pulser or flechette gun if you expected to meet hexapumas and peak bears, unless you expected the noise of a powder-burning gunshot to drive them off without having to kill them.

Old Earth, of course, probably still has guys who will bore you to death over the superiority of the .357 SIG round.

Actually, Matthews had the 1911 specially commissioned and the ammo was custom produced, not a standard Grayson caliber. He discovered the SCA --- and her membership in it --- and (after what happened to Pavel and Denver) it had dawned upon the world in general that they should take a look at the youthful Ms. Harrington's record and discover that she'd won the planetary youth pistol championship of Sphinx before she joined the Navy and discovered the coup. She had to choose between the pistol and the unarmed combat team at Saganami. Unfortunately for Denver, she chose the latter . . . and he didn't research her childhood sufficiently.

Perhaps if he'd had a clue how her father came by the MC he would have. In which case, he might've been smart enough to turn the job down, d'you think?

runsforcelery wrote:
Actually, Matthews had the 1911 specially commissioned and the ammo was custom produced, not a standard Grayson caliber. He discovered the SCA --- and her membership in it --- and (after what happened to Pavel and Denver) it had dawned upon the world in general that they should take a look at the youthful Ms. Harrington's record and discover that she'd won the planetary youth pistol championship of Sphinx before she joined the Navy and discovered the coup. She had to choose between the pistol and the unarmed combat team at Saganami. Unfortunately for Denver, she chose the latter . . . and he didn't research her childhood sufficiently.

Perhaps if he'd had a clue how her father came by the MC he would have. In which case, he might've been smart enough to turn the job down, d'you think?

My impression of Denver is that he was always convinced of his own superiority... even when he wasn't. I'm not sure that even knowledge of how Alfred got the Osterman would have gotten through to him. Denver's problem wasn't smarts; it was attitude.

Don

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dscott8 wrote:

Fox2! wrote:Before the Manticoran alliance made pulsers available to the various Steadholder's Guards, did they have a ".45 ACP vs 9mm Parabellum" war?

Because Honor was given a Model 1911 type pistol by Admiral Matthews of Grayson, we know that the .45ACP round was in use on that planet. We aren't explicitly told, however, what caliber was in standard use for police/military. LaFollet said he'd carried a "chem-burner", but he also seemed to think that Honor's .45 was overdoing it a bit, so I suspect that the Graysons had kept alive the 9mm round that was so common on Old Earth.

There may have been "caliber conflicts" among Grayson shooters, simply because people are human and will debate damn near anything. They probably argued over their beer about the merits of Ford, Chevy and Dodge ground cars.

The 10mm round is spoken of as a standard duelling caliber on Manticore, and I believe that the handguns used in the Sphinx outback were 10mms in the Stephanie Harrington series. That's the only places I recall it being cited specifically. I have no idea why you wouldn't carry a pulser or flechette gun if you expected to meet hexapumas and peak bears, unless you expected the noise of a powder-burning gunshot to drive them off without having to kill them.

Old Earth, of course, probably still has guys who will bore you to death over the superiority of the .357 SIG round.

IIRC Stephanie Harrington carried a 11 mm magnum.

Fox2! wrote:Before the Manticoran alliance made pulsers available to the various Steadholder's Guards, did they have a ".45 ACP vs 9mm Parabellum" war?

RFC is a shooter and I've noted that he tends to like the big bore boomers. Over in the Safehold series, the standard issue Charisan revolver ended up being more along the lines of a .44 Mag than .45 ACP/.45 Schofield everybody was expecting.

Based on that, I figure that there weren't a whole lot of mid or small bores, light bullet weights or subsonic rounds being used in standard issue on Grayson. I figure .40 (or 10mm, if you want to be metric about it) or larger bore diameters, bullet weights of 180-200gr or higher (half an ounce is 218.75gr) and velocities of 1100fps or higher is more in the right ballpark.

That being said, I do love me a good caliber war. Forewarning, I'm of the "big, heavy bullets knocks crap down" school of thought.