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(SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by LadyWhirlwind   » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:01 pm

LadyWhirlwind
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Bluestrike2 wrote:
ywing14 wrote:I don't know that I really agree with the Alignment that "Honor should be one of them". Sure I can see the argument that she started out as an Alpha Line. But that was hundreds of years ago. Sure parts of that heritage are passed on, but that ignores the fact that Honor is just as much a product of the unaltered genes which have been added since as the Alpha Line has reproduced outside the Alignment.


I think that's more a consequence of the Alignment's own biases than anything else. For literally centuries, the MA has labored under the perception that they've been persecuted by the galaxy for their beliefs on genetic enhancement of human beings. They've labored for those same centuries to build a plan that would effectively burn the galaxy down around them so they can rise from the ashes and take over from the normals.

From everything we've seen, they've taken the idea of genetic predetermination to an insane level of zealotry that's unsupported by any scientific basis. The entire notion of distinct "genetic lines"--as if we're talking about different types of Coca-Cola--is a fantasy that's a gross oversimplification of behavioral genetics. When you look at how the MA pursued separate Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Slave lines, it's abundantly clear that their ideology is less about genetic improvement of the human species and more about a genetic caste system and power structure.

As an aside, the slave lines themselves are a pretty damned good example of just how flawed their approach is. After all, Manpower has to use repeated rape and torture to "condition" their pleasure slaves. And there are a lot of pissed off ex-slaves in the Honorverse. If the MA could use genetics to finely tune a person's personality based on genetics, Manpower would be selling slaves who are happy and content with their enslavement.

Taken together, it's really no surprise that they view Honor Harrington as someone who "should be one of them." They're predisposed to believe that genetics dictate everything, while cognitive dissonance helps them ignore any role Honor's own life experiences and environment might have played in her becoming such a competent naval tactician. They can't help but see themselves as responsible for Honor's successes, much as they'd prefer they didn't happen.


Maybe some of the qualities that make Honor such a dangerous opponent are indeed the resiult of the alignments genetic works. I wouldn‘t be surprised if it turns out, thst the Harringtons were designed to be fighters and/or leaders.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:08 pm

DrakBibliophile
Admiral

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Whew!

Just finished the eARC.


What a ride!!!!

Oh, I really loved "Firebrand" getting a Treecat partner.

Now, he's really going to be dangerous ... To The Real Bad Guys. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by Meshakhad   » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:58 pm

Meshakhad
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Really enjoyed it. My main complaint is that I wanted more. Especially more Sonja Hemphill and Shannon Foraker. I loved the plot twists (especially the reveal about the Harrington line), and while I wish the defeat of the Solarian League had been more drawn out and bloody, the ending is what Honor has long deserved.
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Re: Uncomprisingly good
Post by vauss   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:29 am

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runsforcelery wrote:I'm glad you liked it. :D

One reason it can move as quickly as it does is that I put the building blocks in place in the earlier books. I've talked about the one thing that I would've (and should have) changed in Shadow of Victory if my health had been better (and my head had been clear), but without the work I spent on characters there, a couple of significant plot strands in Uncompromising would have had no place to stand.

I will say, quite frankly — and I've said this at conventions — that the change that was forced at the conclusion of At All Costs created major problems with my original plan for the war against the Solarian League. I mean, major problems. In a way, I found myself in the position of the producers of a successful television series who know their series is going to run for five seasons, for which they have crafted a tightly plotted story arc that comes to a full and satisfying conclusion . . . only to discover at the very end of Season Five that they've been renewed for another three seasons. Everything was set to go into limbo for twenty years after Honor's death . . . until she didn't die. :roll:

As I've said before, overall I'm delighted that she didn't, but I had to find a way to fight a hard war against a navy which was totally out-classed because it was supposed to have twenty more years in which to get a clue about its probable opposition and didn't get them. At the end of the day, at the close of Uncompromising Honor, we are very much where I originally intended to be at the close of the war against the Solarian League, except that it was going to be either Alexander McKeon or Michelle Henke having the conversation with Elizabeth in the final chapter. And, of course, the "Harrington torch" would've been passed to Raoul and any of his siblings.

I've always been aware that there were aspects of how the story changed following Alastair's death and Lester Tourville's surrender that weren't everyone's cup of tea. I was wrangling treecats at the time, however, and they have very sharp and very pointy claws.

At the end of the day, I'm satisfied with Uncompromising Honor and where it leaves the primary characters and the interstellar political and diplomatic system of the Honorverse.

Which doesn't mean that I won't go back and poke up the fire again sometime in the near future. :lol:


Of course now I keep getting flashes of Nimitz standing, Pulser at the ready with smoke coming from the barrel after he's killed several bad guys. I just can't get it out of my head...argh!
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by cthia   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:25 am

cthia
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The Sollies themselves said that the Yawata Strike was pretty much an Edict violation.

I guess it is safe to assume that whatever snap crackle and popping Honor did in her emotional state did not rip the rice paper the Harrington Doctrine is written on.

It really surprises me that everyone is so gobsmacked that the Harringtons have Alpha blood in them. Again, I'm surprised that my theory was so sound. Honor stands out so much from the "human" pack. She and Alfred have a very short fuse. Probably a side effect of the genetic tampering. It makes sense that Honor borders on the more extreme side effects of the Alpha's, being just a stone's throw from psychopathy exhibited in some of the Alpha lines, but coming in just under the radar. It's probably something that should never come to light. After all, she already has been and probably still is considered a "bloodthirsty bitch" by the Opposition. There's quite a few bloodthirsty Alpha's. Heck, they're all bloodthirsty if I'm ever interviewed.

Also, textev has supported that the Harringtons have seen their fair share of bondings. It has always seemed to be a given that it is as a result of whatever flavor of genetic tampering Harringtons have. Which now implies that the Malign mindglow might be particularly tasty to the cats. Now I have to imagine Clean Killer being torn between bonding and slicing.

At any rate, it amazes me that everyone is so shocked. I don't expect you all to have the uncanny insight that my Alpha brain has :D ... but come on, all of the signs are there. Honor stands out like a sore thumb amongst every other Manticoran or Sphinxian or Gryphander, or Havenite, or Grayson. Nobody even comes close.

It implies a formidable bunch of Malign officers if they can get the experience. But then, Honor was formidable right off the bat wasn't she? I mean, she served under someone, but still. She's always been head and shoulders above the rest strategically and tactically, IMO. Reminds me of my niece, smarter than the teachers.

With the unprecedented Malign tech (yes it is) and a ship load of Harringtons, the upcoming story arc should be so tasty that teeth marks will be left in the cover...

"Hey, who bit my book!"

.
Last edited by cthia on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by kzt   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:42 am

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cthia wrote:I guess it is safe to assume that whatever snap crackle and popping Honor did in her emotional state did not rip the rice paper the Harrington Doctrine is written on.

You would be wrong.

You really should read the book, it's an excellent wrap up.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by cthia   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:51 am

cthia
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In the upcoming story arc, an unspoken theme may be "It takes an Alpha to handle an Alpha." The difference being experience.

Which may be front and center why the author is grooming a few more Manty Alphas with Raoul and company. The same theme is featured in one of Star Trek's movies. Remember again the Wrath of Kahn? Kahn and his crew were essentially Alpha's. Much smarter than Kirk. But as Spock noted, he was intelligent but inexperienced. His tactics indicated two-dimensional thinking.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by cthia   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:03 am

cthia
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kzt wrote:
cthia wrote:I guess it is safe to assume that whatever snap crackle and popping Honor did in her emotional state did not rip the rice paper the Harrington Doctrine is written on.

You would be wrong.

You really should read the book, it's an excellent wrap up.

Oh, I intend to kzt. Trust me. Especially after stalking these classified threads. But I intend to follow your advice "to the letter." I'll read the book. Not the eArc. Like I said. I'm an incurable romantic. I like the rustling of pages, the pretty cover, and the age-old paper cuts. With Emily dead, I'll be crying inside. Paper cuts seem appropriate. Digital copy is for fourth and fifth reads. It is definitely not meant for the maiden voyage. But that's just me. Either something is broken inside me. Or preserved.

I've got thirty odd books to ship to Romania, then another thirty odd when the leather edition breaks. Not a single one of them is screaming for the eArc. I asked too. What I got, "No way."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by cthia   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:15 am

cthia
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Thanks for the tidbit on the Harrington Doctrine. Which implies that Raoul will inherit the Malign and the Lenny Dets and the mess that is left in the wake of the torn rice paper. Which implies that he may be facing offensives from two different navies like what was threatening the Manties.

It seems intuitive that the RF will team up with the disgruntled remnants of the League, even if textev didn't say so. There may be a Grand Alliance of the malignant kind. Coming to a theater near you.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: (SPOILERS) Uncomprisingly good
Post by cthia   » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:20 am

cthia
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kzt wrote:You really should read the book, it's an excellent wrap up.


Of course it's an excellent wrap up. Weber is an Alpha too. He's had centuries, since the last Harrington book, to get his plan right. :lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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