BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

[quote="runsforcelery"]



Member systems of the Solarian League are under no requirement to share their tech with the SLN. They very often do, but they are not required to for two reasons.

Which would also apply to systems like ...Mannerheim.

So, where does The MAya Sector fit into all of this? Is Barregos required to share his Erewhonese acquired tech with FF/BF? I'm thinking yes, so shouldn't the finger of treason be more fairly pointed there? At least if the Mandarins discover it much before Operation Sepoy.

pappilon wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:


Member systems of the Solarian League are under no requirement to share their tech with the SLN. They very often do, but they are not required to for two reasons.

Which would also apply to systems like ...Mannerheim.

So, where does The MAya Sector fit into all of this? Is Barregos required to share his Erewhonese acquired tech with FF/BF? I'm thinking yes, so shouldn't the finger of treason be more fairly pointed there? At least if the Mandarins discover it much before Operation Sepoy.

Maya is, indeed, a different case. But in more than one way. The people of Maya are not technically Solarian citizens and are under no personal obligation to the federal government or the Constitution. They have accepted an OFS governor to "manage" certain aspects of their governance for them in return for fees collected by OFS (which are not "taxes"). As such, it is technically impossible for any citizen of the Maya Sector (unless he is an ex-pat Solly living there) can be guilty of treason against the Solarian League.

Barregos and his merry band, however, are Solly citizens and they have been sent out with a specific mandate under OFS. Moreover, Rozak is a serving officer of the SLN, not one of the system defense forces. As such, both of them are obligated to share both intelligence and tech with the League. And, as such, both of them have been guilty of conspiracy to commit treason for years. They haven't actually committed it until they declare their independence, but all that "conspiracy" bit becomes equally treasonous the moment they put it into effect.

So, yeah, they're traitors. So was Patrick Henry, and I think their sentiments will be much the same as his were. For so many reasons!

In Beowulf's case, however, what this means is that unless Beowulf actually initiates combat against the Solarian League or provides the weapons used by someone initiating combat against the Solarian League, it is not guilty of treason under the League's own law. Needless to say, the Mandarins aren't real likely to go very far out of their way to explain this counterintuitive aspect of their own legal code to their citizens.

Beowulf is providing weapons to be used by* someone initiating combat against the SL. But you've got "initiating" in italics. So I'm assuming that you mean it in the sense as "someone who originally started the conflict?"

As in "He started it." Like something little kids would say on the playground?

Wouldn't that simply be akin to splitting hairs to an arrogant gorilla who ignores his own [C c]onstitution, let alone Beowulf's?

And, internally, won't the Mandarins naturally ignore Beowulf's "right" to withhold tech? Won't they personally see it as an affront, anyway? Especially under the circumstances?

I just can't see the Mandarins giving aratsass about Beowulf's rights or "the letter of the law" in the overall scheme of things while facing extinction.

But then... I haven't read the book.

*Edit: against to by

.

cthia wrote:

In Beowulf's case, however, what this means is that unless Beowulf actually initiates combat against the Solarian League or provides the weapons used by someone initiating combat against the Solarian League, it is not guilty of treason under the League's own law. Needless to say, the Mandarins aren't real likely to go very far out of their way to explain this counterintuitive aspect of their own legal code to their citizens.

Beowulf is providing weapons to be used against someone initiating combat against the SL. But you've got "initiating" in italics. So I'm assuming that you mean it in the sense as "someone who originally started the conflict?"

As in "He started it." Like something little kids would say on the playground?

Wouldn't that simply be akin to splitting hairs to an arrogant gorilla who ignores his own [C c]onstitution, let alone Beowulf's?

And, internally, won't the Mandarins naturally ignore Beowulf's "right" to withhold tech? Won't they personally see it as an affront, anyway? Especially under the circumstances?

I just can't see the Mandarins giving aratsass about Beowulf's rights or "the letter of the law" in the overall scheme of things while facing extinction.

But then... I haven't read the book.

I got a question. Rozak is SLN FF. Erewhon is supplying ships. Where is Rozak getting loyal-to-Barregos/Rozak crews for this new construction? There's on-the-books ships, then there's off-the-books ships too, aren't there.

Then off to Chtia's point. Yes. The Mandarins are free citizens of The League. They have the right to think and do whatever they want. Yes Beowulf is a traitor, yes so are any other league world that declares independence from the league. Maybe (for the Mandarins) Barregos and Rozak are, maybe not, depending on the weather in Old Chicago and how well the Cubbies are doing. Or the White Sox if you're a hater.

Everything they do is strictly arbitrary and capricious, so no behavior is really off the table, is it.

pappilon wrote:
I got a question. Rozak is SLN FF. Erewhon is supplying ships. Where is Rozak getting loyal-to-Barregos/Rozak crews for this new construction? There's on-the-books ships, then there's off-the-books ships too, aren't there.

Then off to Chtia's point. Yes. The Mandarins are free citizens of The League. They have the right to think and do whatever they want. Yes Beowulf is a traitor, yes so are any other league world that declares independence from the league. Maybe (for the Mandarins) Barregos and Rozak are, maybe not, depending on the weather in Old Chicago and how well the Cubbies are doing. Or the White Sox if you're a hater.

Everything they do is strictly arbitrary and capricious, so no behavior is really off the table, is it.

I believe there is textev of Roszak manipulating manpower to make sure around 90% of crews are local folks from and loyal to the Maya sector.

SPOILER WARNING

George J. Smith wrote:

pappilon wrote:
I got a question. Rozak is SLN FF. Erewhon is supplying ships. Where is Rozak getting loyal-to-Barregos/Rozak crews for this new construction? There's on-the-books ships, then there's off-the-books ships too, aren't there.

Then off to Chtia's point. Yes. The Mandarins are free citizens of The League. They have the right to think and do whatever they want. Yes Beowulf is a traitor, yes so are any other league world that declares independence from the league. Maybe (for the Mandarins) Barregos and Rozak are, maybe not, depending on the weather in Old Chicago and how well the Cubbies are doing. Or the White Sox if you're a hater.

Everything they do is strictly arbitrary and capricious, so no behavior is really off the table, is it.

I believe there is textev of Roszak manipulating manpower to make sure around 90% of crews are local folks from and loyal to the Maya sector.

To some degree, that is answered in the new book. There is really no major hassle. The League is so busy that there are no direct conflicts.

And then the League more or less ends.

So nothing has changed in Chicago.

Haven't gotten the eARC but now I'm hoping something BAD happens to Old Chicago.

runsforcelery wrote:I am shocked, shocked, to discover that there is hypocrisy in Old Chicago!

this is supposed to be a non-spolier thread.

Citha has picked up much but before his vanishing act for his hols he had not read the e-arc.

I know it easy to forget but please check if a thread is spoiler or non spoiler before you post even if you think the spoiler is not big.