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BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by pappilon   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:49 am

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Weird Harold wrote:The Parthian Option is described in a recent snippet. It is a long-range targeting of orbital infrastructure if Manticoran or GA forces are encountered while "raiding" any system suspected of trading with Beowulf or Manticore.

Operation Buccaneer is the Battle Fleet "commerce raiding operation. Case buccaneer is a Frontier Fleet contingency plan for masquerading as pirates to force verge systems to ask for OFS "protection." They are related in effect, but vastly different in purpose and identification.


Mighty fine scalpel you have there perfesser. Can I try to split a hair or two with it?

So Case buccaneer is commerce raiding, and Operation Buccaneer is ... commerce raiding, and the Patthian Option is commerce raiding ... for commanders too scared to take on the big bad Manties. Ok, got it.

Who gives a flying Dutchman over FF or BF or any of the other distinctions with no real difference. What we got here is piracy, dusted off, polished up, and given to another combat group because it might help their entirely different mission. Which mission seems to be to force some under armed star system to kowtow to the Solaran League. Which, oddly enough seems to be the original mission objective of FF and OFS.

Only distinction worth a difference is FF was hammering Verge Systems to force them into the arms of the league. BF is hammering members of the league to force them to remain in the arms of the league.

So what is the BF equivalent of the Gendarmerie and the Intervention Battalions? Because that will have to be the next logial step.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:37 am

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I have a couple of Armenian friends. Well, she is Armenian and he's American. A lovely couple with lovely female twins, both inheriting that trademark lovely Armenian hair. Anyway, I've heard of the Parthian Empire from them. I wonder if RFC, being a history buff, was influenced by it, thus the name somehow has appropriate meaning?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:28 am

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pappilon wrote:Mighty fine scalpel you have there perfesser. Can I try to split a hair or two with it?

So Case buccaneer is commerce raiding, and Operation Buccaneer is ... commerce raiding, and the Patthian Option is commerce raiding ... for commanders too scared to take on the big bad Manties. Ok, got it.


No, Case Buccaneer is outright piracy by FF ships disguised as pirates.

Operation Buccaneer is task force level infrastructure destruction by SLN task forces acting on official Solarian League orders.

The difference is secrecy. FF "buccaneers" can't afford to be associated with the League or SLN; BF "buccaneers" come in announcing who they are and why they are destroying infrastructure.

pappilon wrote:Who gives a flying Dutchman over FF or BF or any of the other distinctions with no real difference.


According to Textev, just about everyone in the SLN cares about the difference between FF and BF, and there are definite differences between the two.
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:51 am

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Wait a minute. Beowulf is building the Mark 23? Building and supplying missiles to the enemy?

Why, that's... that's... that's... that's treasonous!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:19 pm

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cthia wrote:Wait a minute. Beowulf is building the Mark 23? Building and supplying missiles to the enemy?

Why, that's... that's... that's... that's treasonous!


It's worse than that! Beowulf is building Mk25 missiles and the four drive ACM's to go with the Mycroft control platforms they're seeding the Sigma Draconis system with!

And they're not even sharing the specs, let alone the technology, with the SLN!
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by n7axw   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:26 pm

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cthia wrote:Wait a minute. Beowulf is building the Mark 23? Building and supplying missiles to the enemy?

Why, that's... that's... that's... that's treasonous!


There is no doubt but what it is at least odd. It was going on or at very least being set up prior to the plebicite or Hadley's speech in Old Chicago announcing the plebicite. I wondered a bit about that when I read ART.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:41 pm

cthia
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n7axw wrote:
cthia wrote:Wait a minute. Beowulf is building the Mark 23? Building and supplying missiles to the enemy?

Why, that's... that's... that's... that's treasonous!


There is no doubt but what it is at least odd. It was going on or at very least being set up prior to the plebicite or Hadley's speech in Old Chicago announcing the plebicite. I wondered a bit about that when I read ART.

Don

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Wha! :o

Nor, I suppose, have they shared the fact that they're doing all of that with their former lovers. And that they haven't just begun to do so, but been doing it all along since the Yawata Strike. Clearly long before the divorce from Kong is final.

The treasonous acts aren't even seasonous. A few KEWS is definitely reasonous.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:48 pm

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Yep.

The Probability Computer computes a 51 % probability that Kong's excuse for being in the system is simply a Trojan horse for the Beowulfan leg of the Parthian Option.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:00 pm

cthia
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PC computes a 50/50 chance that the horse was trained by the Malign.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by runsforcelery   » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:16 pm

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cthia wrote:Wait a minute. Beowulf is building the Mark 23? Building and supplying missiles to the enemy?

Why, that's... that's... that's... that's treasonous!


n7axw wrote:There is no doubt but what it is at least odd. It was going on or at very least being set up prior to the plebicite or Hadley's speech in Old Chicago announcing the plebicite. I wondered a bit about that when I read ART.

Don

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cthia wrote:Wha! :o

Nor, I suppose, have they shared the fact that they're doing all of that with their former lovers. And that they haven't just begun to do so, but been doing it all along since the Yawata Strike. Clearly long before the divorce from Kong is final.

The treasonous acts aren't even seasonous. A few KEWS is definitely reasonous.



Member systems of the Solarian League are under no requirement to share their tech with the SLN. They very often do, but they are not required to for two reasons.

One reason is that the assumption has always been that the SLN has the best and baddest weaponry in the galaxy, so of course the mere system defense forces of places like Beowulf have nothing to teach the Invincible Solarian League Navy™. Nor does the SLN always share its latest technology with the system defense forces of the League's member systems. It isn't required to, and if the Powers That Be take a dislike to you, you get frozen out of the hardware goodies. Sometimes this is actually based on genuine principle: your current system government is suspected of planning to be a bad actor, so we're not going to give you any bigger clubs until we are convinced you aren't.

Prior to Manticore's declaration of war, following Operation Raging Justice, there was no declared state of war, either. In fact, the League (in the person of the Mandarins) consistently denied that it was at war with the Grand Alliance at all, because a formal declaration would have required a vote in the Assembly and a single veto (i.e., a single voice of sanity) would have prevented it. Because Beowulf was not at war with Manticore (since nobody in the League was at war with Manticore, remember?), Beowulf retained its traditional legal autonomy where its military forces and manufacturing capacity were concerned. (It can build anything it wants for anyone who can pay for it, which includes munitions of war. As long as it's not doing so for a declared enemy of the League during a declared state of war.) Eventually, of course, Beowulf is going to leave the League (because the League, in the person of the Mandarins, has run so far off the rails), and everyone in the League knows it. Therefore, this exercise of well-established legal prerogatives suddenly becomes "treason" in the eyes of the Mandarins and their friends and allies.

The second reason the system defense forces are under no obligation to share their tech with the SLN, however, is something which is also at play here, in a legal/constitutional sense but may not have been made clear in the earlier books.

The original drafters of the Solarian League's Constitution specifically mandated that system defense forces were under the command of the systems which built and manned them and not under the command of the Solarian League Navy except in time of war when called to "national service" and signed off on by the system government. (That is, even in time of war, the system defense forces could choose to stay home and protect their sovereign territory rather than assisting the SLN in offensive operations or even the defense of other member systems.)

In case it isn't clear, the drafters of the League's Constitution were as paranoid about the possibility of a coercive central government as the American drafters of the Articles of Confederation. Some of that American paranoia carries over in the Articles replacement's Tenth Amendment (which any historian of the U.S. Constitution will tell you was written in late eighteenth/early nineteenth century terminology to preserve all but very limited powers in the hands of the states, not the federal government). The drafters of the Solarian Constitution (having seen how well that worked out in the US's case) crafted a system in which the central government was specifically barred from certain actions/powers rather than relying on a mere "all powers not granted to the federal government are reserved to the states" language.

Now, this can be a good thing or a bad thing. At the moment in the League's life we are currently observing, it is a very bad thing, because the way in which the federal authority was deliberately emasculated to prevent it from threatening its member systems' autonomy precluded effective legislative control. This is what produced the bureaucratic system of the Mandarins. At least in the early days of the process, it was simply a matter of predominantly ethical and moral individuals finding ways to do the jobs they were charged to do when they'd been denied the means. Because those means were quasilegal and never submitted for approval by the Assembly, they were also doomed to become a source of abuse and personal aggrandizement.

Don't forget how long the League's been around, though, or the fact that for at least two or three hundred years it gave good governance. The fault is in the design of a system in which the federal legislature started out by resigning its powers into the hands of the League's bureaucratic organs. The drafters thought they could get away with this because they had set up a system in which the federal government would be so starved for funds that the damage it could do at any given moment would be limited. They failed to allow for the possibility that the feds, who really and genuinely needed funding for core services, would find a way to burrow through the no-funding wall and acquire a source of funding which the legislature had never been given the power to cut off.

In Beowulf's case, however, what this means is that unless Beowulf actually initiates combat against the Solarian League or provides the weapons used by someone initiating combat against the Solarian League, it is not guilty of treason under the League's own law. Needless to say, the Mandarins aren't real likely to go very far out of their way to explain this counterintuitive aspect of their own legal code to their citizens.

I am shocked, shocked, to discover that there is hypocrisy in Old Chicago!


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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