BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

Weird Harold wrote:

munroburton wrote:Hanging the SL for these acts lets the MAlign off the hook. I just don't buy Cthia's caricature that the SL Mandarins have become so mindlessly enraged that they order the SLN to go carry out a blatant atrocity.

Textev in the snippets suggests that "Operation Buccaneer" includes just such orders in the "Parthian Option" (sp). Whether that is part of the orders for Beowulf isn't stated, but there are orders to commit blatant atrocities from "on high" in the SL/SLN.

Thanks for sharing that Harold. Considering it, what choice does the SLN have? They are faced with domino secessions and the need to somehow stem the tide. The only way to do so is to carry out the bailiwick of OFS -- scare tactics. The SLN isn't so scary anymore. So the only thing remaining is to step up its "game" and show that there's nothing they aren't prepared to do to maintain control. It's akin to popping an alka seltzer and frightening your opponent into thinking you're a stark raving rabid lunatic by foaming at the mouth.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures and the Mandarins are desperate. The only thing they've got to lose by these measures is Solarian lives. Certainly one can't think the lives of Solarian officers is more important than the Mandarins' agenda.

.

cthia wrote:But they have already. In SoV, they effected a strike against one of their own when the governor called in the strike to put down a terrorist uprising. They were called out for the act, after the fact, and chastised by a Manty. It should be an easier call for them to do so to avenge treason. I'm not saying I actually think that's the case. I'm simply saying that if it is, I for one would not be surprised.

munroburton wrote:There is a loophole in the Edict which allows bombardment against insurrections by the planetary authorities. This is why the SL didn't intervene when Havenites started setting off cluster bombs and nukes in Nouveau Paris.

cthia wrote:I know about the loophole in the edict. I posted it myself a while back. But it doesn't excuse the use of it on moral and humane grounds. Especially utilized by the very entity that supposedly frowns upon it. Which is why they were chastised by the Manty CO entering the system. As I recall, even the officers aboard ship were none too pleased about executing the order or the doomed lives within its strike zone on planet. I got the impression that all situations cannot be lackadaisically considered "an insurrection."

What is preventing some arrogant SLN officer from categorizing Beowulf as a terrorist cell against the League from within?

When trying to keep a lid on a bag of squirming worms, you can't relax your grip and let even one get away, because it shows the others the way out.

Yes, I suppose anyone can do pretty much anything. I suppose even Honor Harrington can convene a court martial for any and all officers and crew responsible literally from Kingsford down. I suppose she can convene it of officers of her fleet using the SLN Code of Military conduct. I suppose she can even find some relatively honest SLN officers to sit on the board. I mean its not like she's done this before.

Not sure how she can prosecute The Mandarins under Solaran law.

pappilon wrote:Yes, I suppose anyone can do pretty much anything. I suppose even Honor Harrington can convene a court martial for any and all officers and crew responsible literally from Kingsford down. I suppose she can convene it of officers of her fleet using the SLN Code of Military conduct. I suppose she can even find some relatively honest SLN officers to sit on the board. I mean its not like she's done this before.

Not sure how she can prosecute The Mandarins under Solaran law.

Exactly. The Cerberus court martials is a precedent for what the GA or Honor might do. She made sure a Citizen Admiral representing the PRH was on the court. And that court refrained from "hanging them all".

The GA will be very precise, measured and restrained when it metes out its justice. It's not just about the right thing to do, it's about winning the interstellar PR war. None of that "an eye for an eye" shit.

I hope so, anyway!

munroburton wrote:

pappilon wrote:Yes, I suppose anyone can do pretty much anything. I suppose even Honor Harrington can convene a court martial for any and all officers and crew responsible literally from Kingsford down. I suppose she can convene it of officers of her fleet using the SLN Code of Military conduct. I suppose she can even find some relatively honest SLN officers to sit on the board. I mean its not like she's done this before.

Not sure how she can prosecute The Mandarins under Solaran law.

Exactly. The Cerberus court martials is a precedent for what the GA or Honor might do. She made sure a Citizen Admiral representing the PRH was on the court. And that court refrained from "hanging them all".

The GA will be very precise, measured and restrained when it metes out its justice. It's not just about the right thing to do, it's about winning the interstellar PR war. None of that "an eye for an eye" shit.

I hope so, anyway!

Doesn't even have to do that. Just take the Mandarins and send them to Beowulf for trial.

Same for other planets.

munroburton wrote:

pappilon wrote:Yes, I suppose anyone can do pretty much anything. I suppose even Honor Harrington can convene a court martial for any and all officers and crew responsible literally from Kingsford down. I suppose she can convene it of officers of her fleet using the SLN Code of Military conduct. I suppose she can even find some relatively honest SLN officers to sit on the board. I mean its not like she's done this before.

Not sure how she can prosecute The Mandarins under Solaran law.

Exactly. The Cerberus court martials is a precedent for what the GA or Honor might do. She made sure a Citizen Admiral representing the PRH was on the court. And that court refrained from "hanging them all".

The GA will be very precise, measured and restrained when it metes out its justice. It's not just about the right thing to do, it's about winning the interstellar PR war. None of that "an eye for an eye" shit.

I hope so, anyway!

ldwechsler wrote:Doesn't even have to do that. Just take the Mandarins and send them to Beowulf for trial.

Same for other planets.

Indeed. Honor did what she did because she had no other choice. The Mandarins can easily be "extradited" to face the music of the Manticoran government and its Queen. Honor would inform them...

"You have offended my family and you have offended the Manticoran Queen."

I'd love to hear what Beth has to say to them. And about them, unedited and unabridged.

cthia wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:Doesn't even have to do that. Just take the Mandarins and send them to Beowulf for trial.

Same for other planets.

Indeed. Honor did what she did because she had no other choice. The Mandarins can easily be "extradited" to face the music of the Manticoran government and its Queen. Honor would inform them...

"You have offended my family and you have offended the Manticoran Queen."

I'd love to hear what Beth has to say to them. And about them, unedited and unabridged.

Ok, maybe? Is there provision in the Deneb Accords for extradition of members of the civilian government for trial on another planet? I seem to recall that even in Cerberus Honor had to use Haven Law.

Weird Harold wrote:

munroburton wrote:Hanging the SL for these acts lets the MAlign off the hook. I just don't buy Cthia's caricature that the SL Mandarins have become so mindlessly enraged that they order the SLN to go carry out a blatant atrocity.

Textev in the snippets suggests that "Operation Buccaneer" includes just such orders in the "Parthian Option" (sp). Whether that is part of the orders for Beowulf isn't stated, but there are orders to commit blatant atrocities from "on high" in the SL/SLN.

Are we really sure that the Parthian Option is something the Mandarins are aware of?

Considering the penetration MAlign has in the SLN I would suggest that that option is their brainchild, since if it's implemented it will fracture the league further.

Joat42 wrote:Are we really sure that the Parthian Option is something the Mandarins are aware of?

Considering the penetration MAlign has in the SLN I would suggest that that option is their brainchild, since if it's implemented it will fracture the league further.

Whether they are aware of the order or not, they are ultimately responsible for approving Operation Buccaneer in some form. Without that framework, the Parthion Option wouldn't be an option.

Weird Harold wrote:

Joat42 wrote:Are we really sure that the Parthian Option is something the Mandarins are aware of?

Considering the penetration MAlign has in the SLN I would suggest that that option is their brainchild, since if it's implemented it will fracture the league further.

Whether they are aware of the order or not, they are ultimately responsible for approving Operation Buccaneer in some form. Without that framework, the Parthion Option wouldn't be an option.

Er, uh, Case Buccaneer = piracy with letters of Marque = privateering, n'est-ce pas? Kolokoltsov approved commerce raiding = privateering = piracy with letters of marque = Case Bucaneer `= Operation Bucaneer. Not sure what the Parthian option actually is. So,yeah, he approved it

ART: last paragraph p399 wrote:As I said earlier,Sir, I think we have no choice but to fight, At the same time, as I also said, I don't think we can afford to send our wall of battle out to fight their wall of battle. And what that leaves us, Sir, is a policy of commerce warfare. A raiding strategy.

He approved whatever Kingsford decides to go with, however he decides to go with. Commerce raiding the GA is one thing (guerre des courses), Commerce raiding anyone else = piracy/privateering.

pappilon wrote:Er, uh, Case Buccaneer = piracy with letters of Marque = privateering, n'est-ce pas? Kolokoltsov approved commerce raiding = privateering = piracy with letters of marque = Case Bucaneer `= Operation Bucaneer. Not sure what the Parthian option actually is. So,yeah, he approved it

The Parthian Option is described in a recent snippet. It is a long-range targeting of orbital infrastructure if Manticoran or GA forces are encountered while "raiding" any system suspected of trading with Beowulf or Manticore.

Operation Buccaneer is the Battle Fleet "commerce raiding operation. Case buccaneer is a Frontier Fleet contingency plan for masquerading as pirates to force verge systems to ask for OFS "protection." They are related in effect, but vastly different in purpose and identification.