BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

cthia wrote:

munroburton wrote:Can you imagine the infectious vitriol that must have been spewed at the meeting that okayed kinetic strikes? Pounding on the table, followed by spittle and...

"DAMMIT! BEOWULF IS TREASONOUS! A FEW KEWS IS REASONOUS!"

I think that's an enormous leap to make at this juncture.

My guess is that the Beowulf strike is unintentional on the part of the SL. It will very much be due to MAlign interference.

I know that is the collective stance of most everyone in the forum. If I had to, I'd bet on the same color at the roulette wheel as well. However, as I've stated before, if that happens, the SLN will not be without their share of the blame. What are they really doing in the system? They're making it easy for the MAlign to manipulate them. Do they really believe that Manticore is coercing, strong arming Beowulf? The two are in love for goodness sakes. Manticore and Beowulf are star struck lovers, soul mates. They're a better fit.

At any rate, are we really to believe that they drove all the way there with the intentions to be nice and accept the results of the referendum no matter the outcome? They can't sell me that swampland.

The tension between the RMN and SLN has been so volatile since Byng, that they spontaneously combust within a light-year of each other! Especially with ignorance and arrogance heaped onto the pile.

The SLN has no business at all in system under the circumstances. How would that work anyways, both of the Goliaths hovering around in orbit? No way. They'd be pulling their hair out and biting their nails, ready to blow each other into orbital debris at the screech of a cat or sound of a fart. There's no way any Manty ship will allow itself into close proximity of a Solly with sidewalls down. But that would be confrontational.

Remember Star Trek?...

"Raise shields keptin?"

"Raise shields keptin?"

Poor Sulu was sweating bullets in The Wrath of Khan. Regulations are regulations, but common sense trumps it.

Which means the RMN might simply hangout in-system in lieu of hovering too close to the arrogant, temperamental maniac in orbit. Preventing them from getting to the offending Solly ship before they do damage to the planet, either intentionally or by Malign design.

Always remember the human element.[/quote]

I love the phrase about the SLN "Share of the blame." Right. The Sollies have been in the middle of a lot of garbage for centuries.

Individual planets seem to have no rights. No one has rights except perhaps for a few very rich folk who can give large bribes.

Recall one of the Analects of Confusius. A group of workers took a quick break at the side of the road. One asked the others, "What is the penalty for being late to work?" The answer was "Death."

The next question was "What is the penalty for rebellion?" Again the answer was death.

The first guy then said, "Hate to tell you all but we're already late."

So there was rebellion.

Same for the League. How can there be treason when there is no choice?

Eventually this will late to the destruction of the Mandarins...or at least the ones currently in power. What happens later could be very interesting.

munroburton wrote:My guess is that the Beowulf strike is unintentional on the part of the SL. It will very much be due to MAlign interference.

You are not allowed to ACCIDENTALLY use a WMD on a populated area. It’s explicitly an edict violation due to your lack of concern for human life.

It’s part of why Green Pines is a problem for the GA, “Sorry, my bad” isn’t an acceptable response when you set off a WDM in an urban area.

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:My guess is that the Beowulf strike is unintentional on the part of the SL. It will very much be due to MAlign interference.

You are not allowed to ACCIDENTALLY use a WMD on a populated area. It’s explicitly an edict violation due to your lack of concern for human life.

It’s part of why Green Pines is a problem for the GA, “Sorry, my bad” isn’t an acceptable response when you set off a WDM in an urban area.

What if your WMDs are hijacked? The SLN opens fire on a fleet 20 million kilometres or more away from the planet in question. Hidden programming in the missiles switches on and retargets the planet, also ignoring abort commands.

That snippet about the data-mining of SLN comm data implies that Manticore may get some evidence of what happened on Filareta's flagship.(However, it might be false data planted to show Filareta ordering the attack...)

Hanging the SL for these acts lets the MAlign off the hook. I just don't buy Cthia's caricature that the SL Mandarins have become so mindlessly enraged that they order the SLN to go carry out a blatant atrocity.

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:My guess is that the Beowulf strike is unintentional on the part of the SL. It will very much be due to MAlign interference.

You are not allowed to ACCIDENTALLY use a WMD on a populated area. It’s explicitly an edict violation due to your lack of concern for human life.

It’s part of why Green Pines is a problem for the GA, “Sorry, my bad” isn’t an acceptable response when you set off a WDM in an urban area.

munroburton wrote:What if your WMDs are hijacked? The SLN opens fire on a fleet 20 million kilometres or more away from the planet in question. Hidden programming in the missiles switches on and retargets the planet, also ignoring abort commands.

That snippet about the data-mining of SLN comm data implies that Manticore may get some evidence of what happened on Filareta's flagship.(However, it might be false data planted to show Filareta ordering the attack...)

Hanging the SL for these acts lets the MAlign off the hook. I just don't buy Cthia's caricature that the SL Mandarins have become so mindlessly enraged that they order the SLN to go carry out a blatant atrocity.

But they have already. In SoV, they effected a strike against one of their own when the governor called in the strike to put down a terrorist uprising. They were called out for the act, after the fact, and chastised by a Manty. It should be an easier call for them to do so to avenge treason. I'm not saying I actually think that's the case. I'm simply saying that if it is, I for one would not be surprised.

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munroburton wrote:What if your WMDs are hijacked? The SLN opens fire on a fleet 20 million kilometres or more away from the planet in question. Hidden programming in the missiles switches on and retargets the planet, also ignoring abort commands.

You don’t really believe any of that Manty propaganda about secret century long conspiracies, do you? It’s just the Manties justifying their imperialism and trying to prevent the justifiable punishment. We all know there is no such thing.

cthia wrote:But they have already. In SoV, they effected a strike against one of their own when the governor called in the strike to put down a terrorist uprising. They were called out for the act, after the fact, and chastised by a Manty. It should be an easier call for them to do so to avenge treason. I'm not saying I actually think that's the case. I'm simply saying that if it is, I for one would not be surprised.

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There is a loophole in the Edict which allows bombardment against insurrections by the planetary authorities. This is why the SL didn't intervene when Havenites started setting off cluster bombs and nukes in Nouveau Paris.

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:What if your WMDs are hijacked? The SLN opens fire on a fleet 20 million kilometres or more away from the planet in question. Hidden programming in the missiles switches on and retargets the planet, also ignoring abort commands.

That snippet about the data-mining of SLN comm data implies that Manticore may get some evidence of what happened on Filareta's flagship.(However, it might be false data planted to show Filareta ordering the attack...)

Hanging the SL for these acts lets the MAlign off the hook. I just don't buy Cthia's caricature that the SL Mandarins have become so mindlessly enraged that they order the SLN to go carry out a blatant atrocity.

You don’t really believe any of that Manty propaganda about secret century long conspiracies, do you? It’s just the Manties justifying their imperialism and trying to prevent the justifiable punishment. We all know there is no such thing.

Oh right. I thought we were discussing Manticore's response to an incident on Beowulf, rather than whatever after-the-fact justifications the SL dredges up. I am clearly talking about Manticore in the second paragraph of my post which you only partially quoted.

Somebody made an implication(it may not have been in this thread, there's a lot of cross-posting going on lately) that the SL government would face Edict enforcement at the hands of the GA.

I am challenging that. I don't think the GA is going to go for Sol that hard(executing every senior SL bureaucrat and SLN flag officer), not when they know the MAlign is behind a curtain somewhere pulling strings. More likely, they will use it as the stick part of a "carrot-and-stick" strategy to dismantle the League, rather than destroying everything with fury and fire.

munroburton wrote:Hanging the SL for these acts lets the MAlign off the hook. I just don't buy Cthia's caricature that the SL Mandarins have become so mindlessly enraged that they order the SLN to go carry out a blatant atrocity.

Textev in the snippets suggests that "Operation Buccaneer" includes just such orders in the "Parthian Option" (sp). Whether that is part of the orders for Beowulf isn't stated, but there are orders to commit blatant atrocities from "on high" in the SL/SLN.

munroburton wrote:

cthia wrote:But they have already. In SoV, they effected a strike against one of their own when the governor called in the strike to put down a terrorist uprising. They were called out for the act, after the fact, and chastised by a Manty. It should be an easier call for them to do so to avenge treason. I'm not saying I actually think that's the case. I'm simply saying that if it is, I for one would not be surprised.

There is a loophole in the Edict which allows bombardment against insurrections by the planetary authorities. This is why the SL didn't intervene when Havenites started setting off cluster bombs and nukes in Nouveau Paris.

I know about the loophole in the edict. I posted it myself a while back. But it doesn't excuse the use of it on moral and humane grounds. Especially utilized by the very entity that supposedly frowns upon it. Which is why they were chastised by the Manty CO entering the system. As I recall, even the officers aboard ship were none too pleased about executing the order or the doomed lives within its strike zone on planet. I got the impression that all situations cannot be lackadaisically considered "an insurrection."

What is preventing some arrogant SLN officer from categorizing Beowulf as a terrorist cell against the League from within?

When trying to keep a lid on a bag of squirming worms, you can't relax your grip and let even one get away, because it shows the others the way out.

Munroburton wrote:Oh right. I thought we were discussing Manticore's response to an incident on Beowulf, rather than whatever after-the-fact justifications the SL dredges up. I am clearly talking about Manticore in the second paragraph of my post which you only partially quoted.

Somebody made an implication(it may not have been in this thread, there's a lot of cross-posting going on lately) that the SL government would face Edict enforcement at the hands of the GA.

I am challenging that. I don't think the GA is going to go for Sol that hard(executing every senior SL bureaucrat and SLN flag officer), not when they know the MAlign is behind a curtain somewhere pulling strings. More likely, they will use it as the stick part of a "carrot-and-stick" strategy to dismantle the League, rather than destroying everything with fury and fire.

The Mandarins will never convince the GA that the government of Beowulf needed the SLN to come in and protect it from the 70+% of its citizens voting to secede from The League. I mean if it was a legitimate strike to quell a rebellion, Beowulf has sufficient naval resources to do its own dirty work.

If indeed a strike killed Hamish, Emily ,Jacques, who knows how many other relatives in a KEW attack. There is no predicting Honor's response. But whatever response she takes it will not be a bombardment of the various governmental and military complexes in Old Chicago.

And you can bet yer bottom centicredit she'll have forensic accountants looking at everybody's financial records. She'll never let The MAlign off the hook, even if she can't directly link them to Beowulf. The circus of trials and plea deals will make Cereberus look like a circus side show.

munroburton wrote:

kzt wrote:You don’t really believe any of that Manty propaganda about secret century long conspiracies, do you? It’s just the Manties justifying their imperialism and trying to prevent the justifiable punishment. We all know there is no such thing.

Oh right. I thought we were discussing Manticore's response to an incident on Beowulf, rather than whatever after-the-fact justifications the SL dredges up. I am clearly talking about Manticore in the second paragraph of my post which you only partially quoted.

Somebody made an implication(it may not have been in this thread, there's a lot of cross-posting going on lately) that the SL government would face Edict enforcement at the hands of the GA.

I am challenging that. I don't think the GA is going to go for Sol that hard(executing every senior SL bureaucrat and SLN flag officer), not when they know the MAlign is behind a curtain somewhere pulling strings. More likely, they will use it as the stick part of a "carrot-and-stick" strategy to dismantle the League, rather than destroying everything with fury and fire.

You can’t claim the bogeymen you were just last week disclaiming as enemy propaganda were responsible for something bad you did and expect anyone to believe it. Other than maybe your enemies.