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Nuncio's Windfall.

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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by Castenea   » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 pm

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pappilon wrote:Ok, sure. Replace the reactor that could fail at any moment with no warning whatsoever. tow it out to some LaGrange point, somewhere out there, turn on all the obsolete passive sensors, maybe beg, borrow, walk off with a few decent Manty drones and use it as a forward operating (DEWline) base. reverse engineering obsolete and garbage tech is ... a waste of time and effort.

We know There is manufacturing in the sector. We know Rembrandt for one is fairly prosperous. Rembrandt and Nuncio are not merely trading partners, or rivals, they are fellow members of The Manticoran Empire.

We have textev that there are Manticoran representatives already seeking alliances with the planets of the Talbott Sector. That aid andassistance is not decades or even forever away. Once it gets started on Spindle, or Rembrandt, or Montana, or anywhere else, Nuncio will have access. Even if the Crown has to make loans available for interim purchases.

We know Admiral Countess Steadholder Alexander-Harrington and her Blackbird corp will be sniffing around foe investment opportunities. Wouldn't her good buddy Stacey Hauptmann also be looking to expand the family business? or even her own accounts? And should her Imperial Highness suggest looking at Nuncio...


This stupid cruiser is not some golden goose, it is some obsolete death trap full of almost worthless junk and aged tech, that would be studied, pored over, reverse-enginered, then scrapped as soon as the sector starts being developed. Which regardless of Manticore's dearth of manufacturing, will be local.

If it was Tiberion and they were interested, then your points would, maybe be valid. But they are not only on the edge of the Spindle sector, they are closest to Meyers. You remember, the planet Mike recently liberated from OFS? yet another source of somewhat newer stuff than pre-Operation Buttercup PRN obsolete junk.

I think you are being overly harsh, I would expect there was a team sent to evaluate the ship for things to repurpose and reverse engineer on the theory that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. This team would likely be reassigned to integrating Manticoran tech with what is currently on Nuncio as soon operating examples of Manticoan tech arrive for them to integrate.
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by Direwolf18   » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:53 pm

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Ok. I have thought about this subject a little bit.

First I think the original post is correct that in a vacuum the captured Mars class heavy cruiser (even beat up to hell and gone, the full back half is basically space dust) would be a huge windfall for the otherwise dirt poor Nuncio.

However... we are not operating in a vacuum. Admiral Khumalo (one of my favorite characters) was the very first to view them not so much as Nuncions (sp?) but instead as Manticorians. As an aside, on my opinion that was the first sign the Khumalo was truly one of the "good guys", in an interesting twist Aivars (and Honor) were wrong about him and his deployment priorities. He didn't relegate the Lynx terminus as a secondary objective cause he was the blithering moron anyone who disagrees with Honor clearly is, but because he views the people of Spindle, Dresden, Rembrant, Montanta, and NUNCIO, not as members of separate minor star nations that are friendly to Manticore, or even as a general Talbotter label, but as MANTICORIANS. Even before they officially were, his primary objective in his mind was their protection and doing what he could to minimize the effects of piracy and the like. As such he used every ship he could to patrol the Quadrant and basically said, if the powers to be really care about the Terminus they can spare a squadron or two of heavies from home fleet instead of the completely ineffectual gesture of concentrating his limited light forces there. (heaviest ship before the HMS Hexapuma showed up, outside of his flagship ((an incredibly old [see: worthless] Superdreadnought, was an old Star Knight class, HMS Warlock)



OK, now that I got off my Hobby horse, sorry, I have to say Nuncio is NOT operating in a vacuum anymore. Light and heavy forces have been POURING in to the quadrant. To say nothing of the civilian side of things. Nuncio is a prime vacation destination, especially now that Haven is an Ally, there are tons of opportunity to become THE destination spot in the Grand Alliance.

Plus I would be amazed if one of the original LAC squadrons to make it to the Quadrant was not immediately sent to Nuncio. The whole saying about the squeky wheel and all that. I figure Lynx (yay terminus), Spindle (yay political HQ), Montanta and Tillerman (Yay facing the sollies) could arguably be higher in priority, but the fact that Nuncio just recently had frigging PIRATE activity, would be a point of concern for Manticorinan Admiralty. Cause at this point everyone views the Nuncions as "Manticorians" and that they need to be protected. I can't imagine a pirate even contemplating of sticking its nose in Manticore actual, and I would imagine establishing that precedent all over the Star Empire would be a very very high priority. One could even argue a constitutional necessity.

What does that mean, and yes I have rambled on. I think that while a backwater system like Nuncio could receive enormous value from something like a Mars class heavy cruiser, what it is currently receiving in aid from Manticore blows that out of the water.
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:40 pm

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Hi ArmySGT,

I hope the internet won't swallow this post like the first one.

Thank you for thinking.

There was some discussion about Nuncio and Anhur at Baen's Bar back in 2005 (with about the same response) but keep digging, you may find gold yet.

A couple of nits are in order; the freighters full of tech, teachers, prolong and medical support etc in THotQ back in 1902 PD; they were practically given to Grayson to ensure it joined the alliance, while the freighter construction yard at Blackbird mentioned in EoH was a straight business deal, very different than the original aid package.

Such targeted aid packages were often outright gifts to get neighbors to join the Manticore Alliance, and helped many members achieve much higher prosperity for their star systems, though Grayson has outdone them all apparently.

Given that history of aid, and Nuncio's proximity to the Lynx terminus [only 160 LY] and Spindle [~105 LY], NTM its small population of only 350 million, or the 'busy' survey teams mentioned in SoS, Nuncio should be among the first to receive prolong [or LAC's] etc right along side Dresden or Tillerman [SoF textev] and the other special help it needs without the likely dead end of concentrating on the Anhur, since reverse engineering something has often bogged down modernization efforts of those who tried it, as the soviets and Chi-coms demonstrated repeatedly.

Since the Anhur was taken August 25, 1920 they had barely 6 monthes to examine Anhur before becoming the Talbot Quadrant; while it was some 2&1/2 years before OB to send the Emerald Dawn's survivors home and repair the ship [probably with an RTU repair ship] and return it to its owners with the state-sec being sent to Erewhon almost immediately, meanwhile receiving all the aid they needed, including all that was sent before OB but not yet delivered [I doubt Honor's convoy was the only one sent to Grayson].

The Hexapuma wasn't the first RMN ship to visit Nuncio, nor the last over the next few weeks as Terekhov indicated, with at least 2 dozen in the cluster at the time.

One of the first things I would expect from Medusa would be enough db's, in effect official newsies, to provide almost weekly news updates to the TQ members to promote their identity with the SEM and each other, which whether SEM or bought in the cluster would require dozens of db's besides 3-4 stationed in each system to warn Spindle and its neighbors, so contact with the rest of the quadrant should be rather constant, NTM the news from ships going to or from the terminus along its axis that it can add to its own reports.

So I think its far better off already than what you may have thought.

But definitely interesting times,

L


ArmySGT. wrote:Let's think about what systems or components are still whole and operable aboard what is RHNS Anhur.

Things, if not something operable right as is, are available to be dismantled and reverse engineered for study.

The plug and play module. While this has been harped on as something to offset the poor education of the average Havenite conscripted naval rating, it has an advantage. A system easier to repair if you are able to pull it out and put in something that works under stress like, say combat. Another, that a system would have the ability to be incrementally upgraded, thus extending the useful service life.

RADAR/LIDAR tracking components. Anyone with any system defense needs to protect what it fields. Pulling these from the hull for reverse engineering and having the computers to run simulations on the NSN (Nuncio System Navy?) gets a leg up on the new reality of missiles in the current era.

Electronic Warfare Systems. Even the second line stuff is light years ahead of the SLN, and any pirates operating in the Verge. Studying these first hand is a benefit.

The Havenite Military Grade compensator. The hulk isn't going anywhere. Pulling this out and dismantling for study with all the manuals and technical material available too jump starts local manufacture of their own and probably better civilian grade ones too.

Environmental/waste recycling. These are big and omplex systmes and get only worse with sxale. Having suh a large system to look at boosts knowledge in future habitats and ships of their own.

The Simulators... Using the systems as a base others like Space Traffic control, orbital smelting, and fleet or squadron exercises is a start. The goes over to civilian uses like pilot training or advanced education in STEM fields.



Now, when, if ever is Nuncio going to get this great big whopping, all encompassing, I told you it would happen uplift program?

Next year? In five years? 20 years? Never, ever.

Manticore lost all that manufacturing with the losses at Yawata, the fleet engagement with Filareta, and more.

They don't have a surplus to be generous with to poor, back of beyond, 200 years behind, simple people like the half billion of Nuncio.

Moreover, the Grayson package was NOT a gift. That was a trade deal and Grayson worked hard to pay for it.

Using either as a reason for why Nuncio would not or could not use the RHNS Anhur to locally advance themselves is at best a logical fallacy based more on entrenched opinion than fact.
Last edited by lyonheart on Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:58 pm

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The biggest drawback to Nuncio's being a vacation destination is distance from Lynx. It's two weeks or so travel time from Manticore and Beowulf. That means those who can best afford the trip have to allocate at least a T-month just to travel there. That means a month in lost wages for employees or being out of touch for key decision makers. On top of that is the stay on Nuncio. It's not likely to draw a huge number of folks directly from either Manticore or Beowulf directly.

It will draw family run merchies to extend their stays for some R&R as well as Quadrant based government officials and investment and trade reps from Haven, Manticore and Beowulf. That will still be a significant of cash flows, but not necessarily a large number of people. Nuncio will see a large number of retirees from the Quadrant. Those folks who were too old for prolong and want an ideal place to spend their sunset years. I suppose that will make it one of the few places to study geriatrics relatively close to Beowulf. I wonder if that will lead to Nuncio being the Quadrant's center for medical research? Researching therapies to maintain health and vigor later in life may lead to other discoveries. Wouldn't be surprised if some of Honor's relatives from Beowulf would seek out the novelty to study.
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by ArmySGT.   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:17 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi ArmySGT,

I hope the internet won't swallow this post like the first one.

Thank you for thinking.


Well, I haven't posted here or really been on this forum since my initial join date.

The forum members were so nasty then I lost interest fast and just went back to enjoying the novels.

That has just been a repeat.

Even has begun to sap my enjoyment of the novels to be honest.

If this is the best I would be able to expect here; I likely will not bother any longer.
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by munroburton   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:23 am

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ArmySGT. wrote:
lyonheart wrote:Hi ArmySGT,

I hope the internet won't swallow this post like the first one.

Thank you for thinking.


Well, I haven't posted here or really been on this forum since my initial join date.

The forum members were so nasty then I lost interest fast and just went back to enjoying the novels.

That has just been a repeat.

Even has begun to sap my enjoyment of the novels to be honest.

If this is the best I would be able to expect here; I likely will not bother any longer.


That's because your first two posts were on the subject of ex-SLN SDs. It's a subject which had been beaten so hard it was a single molecule thick by the time you joined these forums. Literally ten thousands of posts have gone back and forth and it's a very tired old subject to forum regulars.

Hell, it was already a tired old subject when I joined.

I don't see why the opinions of a bunch of assholes on the internet would make a difference to your enjoyment of the novels, though. Seems a bit of an overreaction to me, if you don't mind me saying so?
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by pappilon   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:39 am

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munroburton wrote:
ArmySGT. wrote:
Well, I haven't posted here or really been on this forum since my initial join date.

The forum members were so nasty then I lost interest fast and just went back to enjoying the novels.

That has just been a repeat.

Even has begun to sap my enjoyment of the novels to be honest.

If this is the best I would be able to expect here; I likely will not bother any longer.


That's because your first two posts were on the subject of ex-SLN SDs. It's a subject which had been beaten so hard it was a single molecule thick by the time you joined these forums. Literally ten thousands of posts have gone back and forth and it's a very tired old subject to forum regulars.

Not to mention it just might be going on way back in the background hum of Life. I can imagine NIT holding summer or even semester in space programs. Little physicists, engineers, astronomers doing pet projects figuratively deconstructing every system in the ship, identifying flaws and coming up with improved and modernized designs.

Heck I can even see Tom Pope and BU9 writing up some of these projects and sticking them in the back as appendices to several novels and collections of short stories for all those who are interested in such topics.

Truth be told, I don't go reading that stuff, no matter how many times people keep referring me to it. It has no conflict, it does not advance the storyline, it has 0 plot potential. Any decent editor would fight to have it deleted.

But we're posting and reposting over how Sanford and Son would be appalled at all the good stuff people are just letting rust away into nothingness. Why? Because we're bored, some of us are looking for Sunday when they can get their hands on the e-arc of UH, the rest of us will have to wait in anticipation for the October release.

Boredom on a fan page is ... not a good thing. Nil desperandum. Check out Honorverse Bestseller List, or some of the others that have devolved into treatises on naval history, astrophysics etc.


Hell, it was already a tired old subject when I joined.

I don't see why the opinions of a bunch of assholes on the internet would make a difference to your enjoyment of the novels, though. Seems a bit of an overreaction to me, if you don't mind me saying so?
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:28 pm

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Hi PeterZ,

You're quite right Nuncio's long term prospects look pretty good.

At 160 LY from the Lynx terminus with passenger liners travelling at 1825 C or 5 LY/day, it will take 32 days each way to get to Nuncio.

Its the other habitable planet Basilica that is such a resort dream that needs genetically modified plants to support human life, which is fairly easy now, unfortunately the original colonists just didn't bring enough of it then with them.

So it will take some time to prepare Basilica, including building all the resorts as well as retirement centers etc.

Given the research into the streak drive, it's possible that by the time Basilica is ready for lots of tourists, NTM the end of the war, faster ships will drastically reduce the transit time.

So investing in Nuncio's future could be a gold mine as you pointed out.

Very interesting times indeed.

L


[quote="PeterZ"]The biggest drawback to Nuncio's being a vacation destination is distance from Lynx. It's two weeks or so travel time from Manticore and Beowulf. That means those who can best afford the trip have to allocate at least a T-month just to travel there. That means a month in lost wages for employees or being out of touch for key decision makers. On top of that is the stay on Nuncio. It's not likely to draw a huge number of folks directly from either Manticore or Beowulf directly.

It will draw family run merchies to extend their stays for some R&R as well as Quadrant based government officials and investment and trade reps from Haven, Manticore and Beowulf. That will still be a significant of cash flows, but not necessarily a large number of people. Nuncio will see a large number of retirees from the Quadrant. Those folks who were too old for prolong and want an ideal place to spend their sunset years. I suppose that will make it one of the few places to study geriatrics relatively close to Beowulf. I wonder if that will lead to Nuncio being the Quadrant's center for medical research? Researching therapies to maintain health and vigor later in life may lead to other discoveries. Wouldn't be surprised if some of Honor's relatives from Beowulf would seek out the novelty to study.[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by n7axw   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:24 pm

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With the proper terraforming and tech needed to deal with the issue that almost wiped out the original colonists, Basilica could become a full fledged thriving colony, not just a vacation spot.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Nuncio's Windfall.
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:07 am

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Indeed so. But what would draw people there? The entire Quadrant is ripe with opportunity and all those planets have enough locally to keep the most driven of their members at home.
Only those with either a need for Basillica's climate or a deep love of it would relocate. The aged are one group. Since most illnesses are treatable, the aged or aging are likely the largest group that would find the climate worth relocating for.

n7axw wrote:With the proper terraforming and tech needed to deal with the issue that almost wiped out the original colonists, Basilica could become a full fledged thriving colony, not just a vacation spot.

Don

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