Nuncio's Windfall.

pappilon wrote:For an entire planet, all the facilities on an obsolete PRN shp with a deathtrap reactor that was replaced in other ships ASAP, is pretty much an obsolete Solaran SD. Yes, there are maybe useful things, but enough to "jumpstart an entire planetary economy"? No way.

Repair bay? So they have absolutely NO facilities for repairing their way more obsolete LACs? Somehow I really don't think so. Yes the stuff might help, it certainly can't hurt. But a planet is mighty huge and a Cruiser ain't no SD. To use it to bootstrap an entire planetary economy ... smokin' oakum. The med bay providing services for a planetary popultion of 9 or 10 figures,preposterous.

Not trying to rain on your parade because it is really cool, but there's at least 2 previous Threads on the 1001 uses for obsolete SL SDs, and this seems to be another meander down that path.

There's a difference between obsolete solarian SDs in Spindle or Manticore - and a damaged havenite CA in Orbit around Nuncio. The 1st ones are only scrap metal and target practice (more or less, at least). The 2nd one ... not so much.

Yes, we all know that Nuncio will profit big time from its membership in the Talbot Quadrant. But that takes time, especially regarding Nuncios stellar position (near the backside of beyond even in the quadrant, if memory serves). Nuncio is also only sparsely populated (half a billion inhabitants or so? That's not much, compared with places like Spindle, Rembrandt or Kornati), so, other planets may get a higher priority for improvement.

That's why the availability of a damaged havenite warship can and will help to push Nuncios economy. Look at the first post in this thread to see the reasons why (Thanks, ArmySGT, for that!) Ok, it will do so only to a limit, yes - but even that limit would be far better than anything Nuncio had at the time HMS Hexapuma came calling. Especially because Nuncio has so few people to take care for.

Eagleeye wrote:There's a difference between obsolete solarian SDs in Spindle or Manticore - and a damaged havenite CA in Orbit around Nuncio. The 1st ones are only scrap metal and target practice (more or less, at least). The 2nd one ... not so much.

The PNE Anhur was captured in late August 1920. The current storyline is at Oct 1922, pending UH. That is ample time for Nuncio to receive its first LAC Squadron with basing, extra simulators, and a tech base that isn't 200 years ahead of the pre-manticore Nuncio tech, but 222 years ahead. (actually NOT that much advanced, because Nuncio wasn't that backward technologically.)

Eagleeye wrote:That's why the availability of a damaged havenite warship can and will help to push Nuncios economy. Look at the first post in this thread to see the reasons why (Thanks, ArmySGT, for that!) Ok, it will do so only to a limit, yes - but even that limit would be far better than anything Nuncio had at the time HMS Hexapuma came calling. Especially because Nuncio has so few people to take care for.

The damaged SLMS Emerald Dawn is far more likely to of use to Nuncio. Repairing that ship will be far easier and cheaper than trying to repair PNE Anhur. Doing so gives Nuncio its own merchant marine, which will give Nuncio the ability to import the tech they actually need instead of picking through rubble for bits and pieces of mismatched tech.

The PNE Anhur was captured in late August 1922.

Impossible. That would place it well after the events of Shadow of Saganami where the incident took place.

Potato wrote:

The PNE Anhur was captured in late August 1922.

Impossible. That would place it well after the events of Shadow of Saganami where the incident took place.

Stupid fingers!

Th OP has been corrected to the correct year of 1920 PD.

Weird Harold wrote:
Stupid fingers!

Th OP has been corrected to the correct year of 1920 PD.

What Nuncio needs, what almost the entire Spindle System outside Van Dort's little group of Trade Alliance planets needs, is actual Capital Investment. One obsolete PRHN cruiser will provide about 0 Manticoral dollars of investment credit. Well, ok maybe half a mill, provided there was some cash in the Bursar's vault.

ArmySGT. wrote:
You're missing the point by miles.

Miles.

Nuncio is dirt poor and an obsolete RHN Mars cruiser is one hundred to two hundred years more advanced than their current economy. They have primitive industrial facilities and the machine shops aboard the RHNS Anhur is the jump start to build better machine tools and systems.

This is the seed to grow.

You have to have the tools, to make the tools; to make the jigs, fixtures, and tools you need.

The tools and knowledge are there in the ships fully functional computer. There is parts and systems to study and replicate. The teaching manuals, simulators, and even some Naval ratings that could be pardoned in exchange for building more machine tools, parts, etc.

This isn't about repairing the RHNS Anhur......this IS about the systems and components of Anhur teaching the people of Nuncio how to make those things without going into debt to offworld lenders.

Sure, and if HMS Hexapuma had crippled her (and the freighter) and left - with Manticore never returning, then it'd be interesting to see how far they could stretch that tech in terms of bootstrapping their own capbilities. The Nucian LACs[1] are certainly sufficient to tow the cripples back to orbit, and there's no evidence that Nuncio was lacking atmospheric shuttles - so it doesn't matter if the wrecks small craft are usable.

However we know that Manticore didn't just leave them on their own. Manticore has been providing freighter's full of medical, industrial, and technological upgrades to all it's new members of the SEM. That totally swamps what Nuncio could begin to scrape out of two wrecks.

And don't forget that the Mars CA's were built around the old Peep low skilled conscript technical capabilities. Much of their equipment was built around plug and play replacement modules - so unless she got refitted after deserting the CA would have a bunch of pre-built spares; but very little onboard capability to replace a module that was damaged. That was at least a depot level activity. So she'll almost certainly have far less repair capabilities than a SLN, much less RMN, ship of the same size.

Still, could they still have done a little during the period between that fight and the arrival of the first turn-key upgrade shipments from Manticore? Sure, and I expect that they did. But it wouldn't have time to make more than a very localized impact - there isn't time to use what repair tech they had to be used to widely replicate itself, or bootstrap up into full-up production machines of that tech level. (Even if there were enough required supplies and feedstocks on hand to do so eventually).



[1] Which are both larger and have better acceleration than anybody's pre-war LACs. Their 500 gees max acceleration is 122% the accel of the typical example of a Highlander-class LAC at 409.3 gees. Possible evidence that they aren't quite so backwards as they seem

One wonders just how far along Nuncios tech actually was. They could have purchased whatever space capability they had when Terekov showed up which doesn't imply the knowledge to actually build Anhur.
In order to successfully reverse engineering something you do have to have enough knowledge of what you are trying to do to be able to grasp the underlying principles of what you are looking at.

I think that Nuncio should sell Anhur to someone who is a bit further along or maybe scrap it out and then use the proceeds to bring someone in to fix the freighter.

Then follow Dresden's example and import teachers to upgrade the educational system.

Don

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Eagleeye wrote:

pappilon wrote:For an entire planet, all the facilities on an obsolete PRN shp with a deathtrap reactor that was replaced in other ships ASAP, is pretty much an obsolete Solaran SD. Yes, there are maybe useful things, but enough to "jumpstart an entire planetary economy"? No way.

Repair bay? So they have absolutely NO facilities for repairing their way more obsolete LACs? Somehow I really don't think so. Yes the stuff might help, it certainly can't hurt. But a planet is mighty huge and a Cruiser ain't no SD. To use it to bootstrap an entire planetary economy ... smokin' oakum. The med bay providing services for a planetary popultion of 9 or 10 figures,preposterous.

Not trying to rain on your parade because it is really cool, but there's at least 2 previous Threads on the 1001 uses for obsolete SL SDs, and this seems to be another meander down that path.

There's a difference between obsolete solarian SDs in Spindle or Manticore - and a damaged havenite CA in Orbit around Nuncio. The 1st ones are only scrap metal and target practice (more or less, at least). The 2nd one ... not so much.

Yes, we all know that Nuncio will profit big time from its membership in the Talbot Quadrant. But that takes time, especially regarding Nuncios stellar position (near the backside of beyond even in the quadrant, if memory serves). Nuncio is also only sparsely populated (half a billion inhabitants or so? That's not much, compared with places like Spindle, Rembrandt or Kornati), so, other planets may get a higher priority for improvement.

That's why the availability of a damaged havenite warship can and will help to push Nuncios economy. Look at the first post in this thread to see the reasons why (Thanks, ArmySGT, for that!) Ok, it will do so only to a limit, yes - but even that limit would be far better than anything Nuncio had at the time HMS Hexapuma came calling. Especially because Nuncio has so few people to take care for.

Ok, Let's look at what is really in the Anhur, and Mars -C Class cruiser. (We don't have the stats for the C, o the B stats will have to stand in)

3 Pinnances
5 Cutters
1 Sickbay- figure 2-3 trauma suites, nominal bedding for 30 - emergency 150 - designed to service a crew of 1200 men.

Armory for 196 Marines (2 companies)and ~1000 sailors
6-8 drones (none were specified actually, but a few were probably carried)
a handful of various machine and electrical shops. (however, it was mentioned that PRN sailors didn't normally repair anything onship, they replaced modular parts and cycled the parts back to depots for refurbishment.
Various hand comps and control systems.
Several dozen hard environmental suits.


In the end, what do you really have? You can equip a nice army battalion with some extras, you can give a nice boost to 1 city hospital (who will run through the drugs and supplies in a month or 2) You have a handful of machine and Electrical tools which will upgrade 1 or 2 workshops. You can put out a handful of sensor satellites into orbit or deep space. The Cutters and exosuits can help put 3-4 dozen people to work at some light orbital construction, and the Pinnaces can greatly increase or even double ground to surface transport for a backwater like Nuncio.

But... Stuff like the hand comps will shortly be available in quantity once the first Manty freighter shows up - it might be pandering Havenite and Andermani goods now, but it will have 8 megatons of them.

The Manty LAC squadron probably comes with a turnkey defensive solution, with basing, space control, system drones, workshops, and pods.

So help, yes, transform... probably not. Now, asking for their share of the loot on Crandall's SDs and escorts - that is a different story. With each system in Talbott getting the stuff off of 3 SDs, 1.5 BCs, 2/3 CA, 1.5 CLs and 1 DD, each system would get roughly 20x what I mentioned above.

If they take the two ships and start studying what the have they will learn things.

The freighter to become a possible core of the Nucio's merchant marine is plausible particularly since freighters then to be both civilian and "stable" tech with common compatable parts and systems.

Nucio starting to build starships in the next 5 years, probably not. Nucio looking to open it's own trade (presuming they have things to sell) quite probably.

Hexapuma may or may not given Nucio much beyond the two ships. It certainly acted in a way the bostered Manticore's reputation and showed them what is possible. Who knows, Nucio might come up with some "improvements" based on the CA equipment that will improve local manufacturing and tech. It will take time for the Manticoraing aid to come through and certainly for investors to start looking to see what can be made in the way of profit at Nuncio.
If nothing elce, a bunch of the tools and equipment could be repurposed for the military and some of the manufacturing processes. Though the reactor has flaws, the ship is still the most sensitive and powerful sensor platform in the system once Hexapuma leaves. What Honor did at Basilisk (if they think of using some of it's spairs and normal equipment that way) could be used to bolster their system sensor and communicaiton net.
Sure, it will get superseeded by RMN and Manticore Civilian stuff but in the interim......and you start training people to use more modern equipment.

Grab the chance and work at it.

It would be interesting to see what they did with that ship.