Detweiler and Sons

There really can be no excuse for a law enforcement offier to shoot anyone unless in direct self defense or in hot pursuit of a crinimal fleeing the scene of a crime.

All too many of these incidents occur because a white cop is afraid of black males "bad hombres" or not. The victims of these incidents are disproportionately black.

This is no comment on black on black violence, black on white violence, or any other combination. It is merely a comment that it would appear that police need to be better trained on interracial interaction. Oftentimes with these incidents, the cop has a prior history of unfortunate encounters. I don't for a moment think that most cops are guilty of this.

But I can fully understand why a black couple worried about keeping their children alive might not fully share my point of view. After all, I have always been treated well by the cops.

Don

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n7axw wrote:There really can be no excuse for a law enforcement offier to shoot anyone unless in direct self defense or in hot pursuit of a crinimal fleeing the scene of a crime.

All too many of these incidents occur because a white cop is afraid of black males "bad hombres" or not. The victims of these incidents are disproportionately black.

This is no comment on black on black violence, black on white violence, or any other combination. It is merely a comment that it would appear that police need to be better trained on interracial interaction. Oftentimes with these incidents, the cop has a prior history of unfortunate encounters. I don't for a moment think that most cops are guilty of this.

But I can fully understand why a black couple worried about keeping their children alive might not fully share my point of view. After all, I have always been treated well by the cops.

Don

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You are correct. The issue is not always, maybe not even often, racism but poor training. There are a lot of shootings (not really a lot numerically but if you are the target...) and when a person is shot by a minority officer it often gets little publicity. When a black officer kills a white person it also gets little. But when a white officer kills a minority...

We do need better training. But US law is more flexible with violence by police than for other citizens. It recognizes that many things happen within a second or two.

A policeman's lot is not a happy one.

n7axw wrote:There really can be no excuse for a law enforcement offier to shoot anyone unless in direct self defense or in hot pursuit of a crinimal fleeing the scene of a crime.

All too many of these incidents occur because a white cop is afraid of black males "bad hombres" or not. The victims of these incidents are disproportionately black.

This is no comment on black on black violence, black on white violence, or any other combination. It is merely a comment that it would appear that police need to be better trained on interracial interaction. Oftentimes with these incidents, the cop has a prior history of unfortunate encounters. I don't for a moment think that most cops are guilty of this.

But I can fully understand why a black couple worried about keeping their children alive might not fully share my point of view. After all, I have always been treated well by the cops.

If you decide to go up to a cop, assault him and try to take his gun the likely outcome of continuing your assault past the point where he has his gun aimed at you is that you get shot to death. It really doesn't matter what the racial situation is, it's how the world works. You can try that in Munich, Beijing or Paris and the same outcome will occur.

kzt wrote:\]
If you decide to go up to a cop, assault him and try to take his gun the likely outcome of continuing your assault past the point where he has his gun aimed at you is that you get shot to death. It really doesn't matter what the racial situation is, it's how the world works. You can try that in Munich, Beijing or Paris and the same outcome will occur.

So how is morality so black and white? So polar? It is almost never: "should I shoot the guy standing on the street minding his own business, or should I just do nothing and mind mine?" And why not? because we're mostly moral creatures and would never do anything like that.

Its more like you're the fire fighter and you responded to a burning apartment building. You and your partner see 2 kids on their 12th story balconies. One's a white boy the other is a black girl. You're about to go save them when your partner has a catastrophic equipment failure and he has to make a hasty exit. So you're now alone, the seconds to structural failure are ticking away. Your experience tells you you can save only one. Which one do you save?

kzt wrote:

n7axw wrote:There really can be no excuse for a law enforcement offier to shoot anyone unless in direct self defense or in hot pursuit of a crinimal fleeing the scene of a crime.

All too many of these incidents occur because a white cop is afraid of black males "bad hombres" or not. The victims of these incidents are disproportionately black.

This is no comment on black on black violence, black on white violence, or any other combination. It is merely a comment that it would appear that police need to be better trained on interracial interaction. Oftentimes with these incidents, the cop has a prior history of unfortunate encounters. I don't for a moment think that most cops are guilty of this.

But I can fully understand why a black couple worried about keeping their children alive might not fully share my point of view. After all, I have always been treated well by the cops.

If you decide to go up to a cop, assault him and try to take his gun the likely outcome of continuing your assault past the point where he has his gun aimed at you is that you get shot to death. It really doesn't matter what the racial situation is, it's how the world works. You can try that in Munich, Beijing or Paris and the same outcome will occur.

With most of the events we have been hearing about the victim is unarmed. Or with the situation in Mpls, the victim was attempting to defuse the situation but once the cop was told about the gun, he shot the guy...with a woman and child in the car.

I agree that being a cop is a tough job. But their role is to prevent violence if possible. It is not their role to play judge, jury, and executioner.

Don

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n7axw wrote:With most of the events we have been hearing about the victim is unarmed. Or with the situation in Mpls, the victim was attempting to defuse the situation but once the cop was told about the gun, he shot the guy...with a woman and child in the car.

I agree that being a cop is a tough job. But their role is to prevent violence if possible. It is not their role to play judge, jury, and executioner.

In any fight with a cop there is always at least one gun present. His. And people get beaten to death routinely by ‘unarmed’ assailants., about 2 every day. Which is twice the rate of murder by rifles.

An El Paso police officer allegedly knocked unconscious and then beaten violently by a 17-year-old died Friday morning at University Medical Center, police said.

Officer Jonathan Molina, 29, who did tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan with the Marine Corps, died a little more than nine days after suffering a fractured skull, internal head injuries and facial fractures.

pappilon wrote:

kzt wrote:\]
If you decide to go up to a cop, assault him and try to take his gun the likely outcome of continuing your assault past the point where he has his gun aimed at you is that you get shot to death. It really doesn't matter what the racial situation is, it's how the world works. You can try that in Munich, Beijing or Paris and the same outcome will occur.

So how is morality so black and white? So polar? It is almost never: "should I shoot the guy standing on the street minding his own business, or should I just do nothing and mind mine?" And why not? because we're mostly moral creatures and would never do anything like that.

Its more like you're the fire fighter and you responded to a burning apartment building. You and your partner see 2 kids on their 12th story balconies. One's a white boy the other is a black girl. You're about to go save them when your partner has a catastrophic equipment failure and he has to make a hasty exit. So you're now alone, the seconds to structural failure are ticking away. Your experience tells you you can save only one. Which one do you save?

If they are the same age, that should be easy. Save the girl. Chivalry and manners, in America.

This conversation is tip toeing around the unrosy bush. Cops across america are downright racist and murderous! Black men are little more than targets. Police officers are black men's worse nightmares, racists with a legal gun to shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot. When they shoot, they empty clips.

All one has to do to put paid to this conversation and gain a lot of perspective, is recall the O.J. Simpson trial and the Furhman tapes. And judge Ito's very difficult decision about whether to release the transcripts of LA officers regarding black men. It was a travesty of black justice that those tapes were not released in their entirety. America needs to know the truth. Because we quickly forget, don't we posters? Mark Furhman is on tape saying how they beat the shit out of black people just for the hell of it. They would bust into apartments and beat the shit out of "those niggers." Even the kids. They didn't give a fuck. And much more frightening admissions of how they'd simply shoot niggers and ask questions later. Even the black bitches.

Those tapes are 13 hours documenting the flavor of police brutality across the country. It isn't all officers, no, but the rampant racism that does exist, exists likewise. It sure as hell opened my eyes. It may have saved the country by not releasing those tapes, but it failed to save black men by spotlighting the real truth. Not the bullshit that people are posting and continuing to claim. It was difficult to look my black friends in the eye after that trial and the little revelations that were released of those tapes.

One of my black friends said "At least the slaves knew where they stood. In present times, we may not know where we stand, but we know where we lay. Dead on the ground."

One of my black friends carry a bright pink cellphone that his very young daughter bought him and demanded that he carry it. This guy is a millionaire who owns his own company.

"Why would she buy you a bright pink cellphone?"

"Because it can't be mistaken for a gun, daddy. Guns aren't pink."

.

Poor Judge Ito. He has one hell of a book to write if he could. He ended up residing because black America feels safe with the Japanese. They don't carry the same imbibed racism against black men as white america does. Poor Ito, must have been laboring intensely inside his soul. He was faced with doing the right thing for black America and the trial, or saving the country. He knew those tapes and the whole sordid truth finally needed to be released. People ignore or fail to see how intense and truly disgusting racism is. Those tapes would have put it right in your face. Totally undeniable. Can you hear black people now?

What a hell of a predicament that poor judge faced. I'm sure he suffers internally from the decision each and every day with each new killing.

The Fuhrman tapes are as frightening as the truth about the Nazis.

Be careful, cthia. What you are saying reflects a real truth, but you are being unidimensional about it. There are lots of cops out there trying to do the right thing, just as there are folks, both black and white, who are criminally oriented, making the police officer's job a dangerous one. Blanket condemnations either way impede the discussion and widen the racial gap.

Paint with a narrow brush, not a wide one.

This has moved away from a discussion of the Detweilers to Free Ranging topics... unless we want Duuck to intervene!

Don

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