BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

pappilon wrote:

cthia wrote:Beowulf caused her karma to bite her...

because her cause was worth it.

Karma is the belief that a person's actions in life will determine their fate in the next life. Sith the belief in Karma, Hinduism holds firmly to Dharma: the moral force that orders the universe.

Namaste The god in in me bows to the god in you.

Beowulf did what Beowulf did because her Moral code (Dharma) left her no other choice. Karma happens.

cthia wrote:

Annachie wrote:Hate to say it Cthia, but even the Mandarins know they were going way beyond the constitution when they launched Raging Justice.

What was the quote, "It means what we want it to mean"

I think I remember textev corroborating your statement. Yet they went ahead and did it anyway. I would wager that it was not unfamiliar territory to the Mandarins. Par for the course even. With the kind of power that they wield, it is much easier instead of asking permission before the fact, they ask for forgiveness after, for adding the lucrative fees of the MWJ to the Solarian economy.

Just so's we're on the same page, it wasn't way beyond their
[C c]onstitution.

Armed Neo-bob wrote:Cthia,
It has been kind of fun watching you twist tails, a bit, and I was going to go looking for infodumps and text to refute your arguments. But it has actually been a worthwhile exercise in some ways. Not in your roleplay--you get a bit excessive, which got responses, but not always to your point. But in looking at the Mandarins from the inside of their environment. Here are a few starting points.

1) The current Mandarins are in a political system that has existed for over 900 years--they didn't invent it, or attempt to change it. While they didn't have a Constitution anyone was looking at, they did operate based on traditions, customs, and expectations (including expectations of graft) that derived from that history (ok, a history of evading responsibility, and foiling attempts to rein in their abuse of power, but it's still their history)
2) They are not as incompetent as they appear, when faced with more familiar challenges--or they wouldn't have made it to the top of their political food chains.
3) Although it is more obvious in the "First Families of the Navy," the entire bureaucracy is riddled with nepotism. In that way, the agencies of the League are very like the Verge hereditary oligarchies they sneer at.
4)I think the only one of them portrayed as truly stupid enough to embrace the "treason" argument would have been McCartney; but in their reality NONE of them expected the actions Tsang took at Beowulf. What had been a political maneuver of manipulating the public debate(as a contingency to deflect post-operation criticism from League Members) blew up in their faces with the destruction of 11th Fleet; but their maneuver's consequences (Beowulf's secession) never even occurred to any of them as a remote possibility. ]It did occur to the Malign, which is why the clause was inserted in Tsang's orders.] And, at least so far, only Kolokoltsov is even seriously aware that they might not win.

Oh, and as an aside--the "marriage" argument doesn't work for me, as Beowulf has had the same government --popularly elected and supported--for a thousand years longer than the League has been avoiding having real elections. Beowulf was by far the senior partner. Or, if you must put it in terms of intimacy, she left an abusive, but adult, child.

Rob

pappilon wrote:

cthia wrote:It is ironic that Beowulf warned the Manties that the juggernaut was coming but the Manties didn't warn Beowulf that sharing that bit of inside information would also mean the juggernaut would be coming. It is what a true friend would do.

Of course, Beowulf should have known.

IIRC (dubious at best), Manticore did warn them, even offered to set SDs around near the hyper limit. Was mentioned during the Royal Wedding. It was the decision of the Planetary Board of Directors to not accept the aid because it would give the appearance of coercion to the coming plebescite.*

The Government of Beowulf took its chances, gambling that the installation of Mycroft would arrive before Battle Fleet. They tossed the dice and came up a cropper.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Oh, and as an aside--the "marriage" argument doesn't work for me, as Beowulf has had the same government --popularly elected and supported--for a thousand years longer than the League has been avoiding having real elections. Beowulf was by far the senior partner. Or, if you must put it in terms of intimacy, she left an abusive, but adult, child.

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Oh, and as an aside--the "marriage" argument doesn't work for me, as Beowulf has had the same government --popularly elected and supported--for a thousand years longer than the League has been avoiding having real elections. Beowulf was by far the senior partner. Or, if you must put it in terms of intimacy, she left an abusive, but adult, child.

cthia wrote:

Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Oh, and as an aside--the "marriage" argument doesn't work for me, as Beowulf has had the same government --popularly elected and supported--for a thousand years longer than the League has been avoiding having real elections. Beowulf was by far the senior partner. Or, if you must put it in terms of intimacy, she left an abusive, but adult, child.

Pardon me bold.

That would make you a traitor Bob—agreeing with the average woman that their spouse is simply a child. The only difference being the size and cost of their toys.

The size and cost of an 800# gorilla is immense. Now she's trying to get her new bf to stuff it for her. Isn't that sweet?

ldwechsler wrote:
All this is nonsense. Almost all people's loyalties are to their planet. The League can put down some rules but that's it.

How many people today are loyal to the European Union? The bureaucrats, sure. And there are some businessmen making money out of it.

But the Brits have voted to leave. The Italian new government has spoken of it. The Hungarians are ticked off and so are the Poles. Macron of France has said that the French would vote to leave if they were given a chance.

It's the elites who like the EU not the people.

The same for the League. It does very little except to regulate trade and to expand. Most planets taken in by force hate the League but have no real way to oppose it.

That's why the Mandarins are so concerned about Beowulf. They want to make certain others don't leave. But if they do an Eridani violation they make end their own existence.

pappilon wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:
All this is nonsense. Almost all people's loyalties are to their planet. The League can put down some rules but that's it.

How many people today are loyal to the European Union? The bureaucrats, sure. And there are some businessmen making money out of it.

But the Brits have voted to leave. The Italian new government has spoken of it. The Hungarians are ticked off and so are the Poles. Macron of France has said that the French would vote to leave if they were given a chance.

It's the elites who like the EU not the people.

The same for the League. It does very little except to regulate trade and to expand. Most planets taken in by force hate the League but have no real way to oppose it.

That's why the Mandarins are so concerned about Beowulf. They want to make certain others don't leave. But if they do an Eridani violation they make end their own existence.

Yes, and The Mandarins are the ultimate elites. Their loyalty, indeed their focused self-interest is maintaining the status quo within the league. They have to do something, anything and quickly before the masses realize that The Emperor has no clothes.

Unfortunately they have no practical military optons, and the sun has set on diplomatic options. They're down to plan Omega and only ever wrote contingency plans up to Iota. C hoose the least bad of the worst options.

cthia wrote::idea: The rats were eating cheese right out of the embassy.

Beowulf had an embassy on Old Earth! Why on earth did Beowulf have an embassy? They are founders.