Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

Fox2! wrote:As mentioned earlier, once any resupply ports are identified, a trap can be laid just inside the hyper limit for raiders coming in for supply, support vessels coming in to replenish, or support vessels on the way out to meet a raider.

Your going to accomplish this how? How many agents inside the SLN command structure does Manticore or Haven have? I think a reasonable approximation is zero. So the way you are going to learn this rather tightly held fact is?

And that assumes there is in fact a resupply infrastructure. There doesn't need to be one, ships are capable of operating without external support for extended periods.

kzt wrote:

Fox2! wrote:As mentioned earlier, once any resupply ports are identified, a trap can be laid just inside the hyper limit for raiders coming in for supply, support vessels coming in to replenish, or support vessels on the way out to meet a raider.

Your going to accomplish this how? How many agents inside the SLN command structure does Manticore or Haven have? I think a reasonable approximation is zero. So the way you are going to learn this rather tightly held fact is?

And that assumes there is in fact a resupply infrastructure. There doesn't need to be one, ships are capable of operating without external support for extended periods.

Manticore and Haven may have no human sources inside the SLN - but Beowulf? How many people - which doesn't necessarily need to be Beowulfers - are working for Beowulf? Don't forget that Beowulf got notice of Operation Raging Justice long before Kingsfords messenger girl came calling. Admittedly, it could've leaked from the political side of things - probably did - but I wouldn't rule out the possibility, that they have military sources inside the SLN command structure, too.

Eagleeye wrote:Manticore and Haven may have no human sources inside the SLN - but Beowulf? How many people - which doesn't necessarily need to be Beowulfers - are working for Beowulf? Don't forget that Beowulf got notice of Operation Raging Justice long before Kingsfords messenger girl came calling. Admittedly, it could've leaked from the political side of things - probably did - but I wouldn't rule out the possibility, that they have military sources inside the SLN command structure, too.

After Beowulf declares itself on the other side I suspect the number of people who have known connections to Beowulf inside the SLN might be somewhat reduced.

kzt wrote:Your going to accomplish this how? How many agents inside the SLN command structure does Manticore or Haven have?

Capture just one raider with computers intact and follow the breadcrumbs back to its scheduled resupply -- which will happen eventually -- and suck all of the captured computers dry when you disassemble the first resupply point.

Weird Harold wrote:

kzt wrote:Your going to accomplish this how? How many agents inside the SLN command structure does Manticore or Haven have?

Capture just one raider with computers intact and follow the breadcrumbs back to its scheduled resupply -- which will happen eventually -- and suck all of the captured computers dry when you disassemble the first resupply point.

1) What happened in HoS is hardly relevant to current deployments.
2) Seriously? Everybody in the honorverse knows where Frontier Fleet is based in each and every quadrant. I seriously doubt the basing of Battle Fleet is any more secret. Just buzz into almost any verge system ans ask.
3) There are lots of RMMM ships lying doggo in orbit around any or all of Manticore's 3 planets. Many of their captains are in the Naval Reserve.
There are also a bunch of fast freighters swanning around. Convert the Holds to LAC hangars and maintenance bays, toss a few pods and computer upgrades, and you have a Q-ship and crew, except for the LACs which don't need much crew. You can pull thm from The Spindle Quadrant. You're already training them up.

Who are the people who have constructed a LAC carrying ship for the RMN? Oh, right, they are all dead.

All these "We'll just build blah" has the rather significant issues that you don't have anywhere to build it or people to do it if you did, or parts to go in if you had a hull. And the people who once upon a time did it are busy training new people from scratch. And I suspect the RMN ship designers are mostly busy trying to train new naval architects, since most of them got blown up too, not available to design special purpose ships they can't build for 2 years that solve a problem that won't exist by then.

If the SLN is still a current and active threat in 2 years the SEM is doomed. Because that means that a whole lot of core worlds have decided to fight to the end and absorb the massive loses while they fortify and build a new war fleet, which the RMN high command says is doom. So there just isn't any reason to go there. It's like deciding to build a submarine army just in case you encounter hostile aquatic aliens and need to invade.

They need many more DDs, CAs and BCs a lot more than they need some sort of special purpose ship. Mounting LACs on freighters is about what they are capable of doing rapidly, and that would in fact provide decent protection against long-range missile attacks.

they do have SOME shipyard workers. those returned by haven when Eloise came to visit and the GA was born.

now that is only a drop in the bucket compared to those they lost and they are likely still some way from having yards and manufactures back online, but they DO have SOME workers.

kzt wrote:

Eagleeye wrote:Manticore and Haven may have no human sources inside the SLN - but Beowulf? How many people - which doesn't necessarily need to be Beowulfers - are working for Beowulf? Don't forget that Beowulf got notice of Operation Raging Justice long before Kingsfords messenger girl came calling. Admittedly, it could've leaked from the political side of things - probably did - but I wouldn't rule out the possibility, that they have military sources inside the SLN command structure, too.

After Beowulf declares itself on the other side I suspect the number of people who have known connections to Beowulf inside the SLN might be somewhat reduced.

Not yet. Beowulf is still a member of the Solarian League (we're actually still in October 1922, PD), so there're still a lot of military, economical and political connections between Beowulf and the League. It takes time to cut these connections - and with the corruption and bribary that are part and parcel of the League bureaucracies ... the connections may be reduced, true, but not so complete as the one who ordered that reduction intended it to be ...

Dauntless wrote:they do have SOME shipyard workers. those returned by haven when Eloise came to visit and the GA was born.

now that is only a drop in the bucket compared to those they lost and they are likely still some way from having yards and manufactures back online, but they DO have SOME workers.

But they are most likely busy either building the new stations, training new crews, or maintaining the current fleet and Forts. And they don't have the slips / construction hardware available like they used to.

Could a couple one-offs be done - yes, but not economically, quickly, and not without stealing priority from something else.

kzt wrote:Who are the people who have constructed a LAC carrying ship for the RMN? Oh, right, they are all dead.

Actually weren't the original CLACs built in the Weyland yards in Manticore-B?

Those workers were the ones who mostly survived due to fortuitously timed station evacuation drill.


That doesn't fix the rest of the issues, like where do you build these things and how do you build them in time to be useful - but workers who've build CLACs (if not the ones who made the Wayfarer class) should still be around.