BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

BrightSoul wrote:OK gang lets see if we can put this into perspective using your analogy.

Fair warning this is gonna get nasty because what you are saying is indeed that nasty in the perspective of league citizen. You are talking like this is Karma against Beowulf so lets carry your analogy to the comparative extreme you have lead us to. You are saying that an Eridani Edict violation is "Karma" for stepping out with a new boyfriend on an abusive life partner correct?

OK, so what you are saying is that since you are stepping out on your abuser with a new man that child rape is ok in the community's eyes.

The Eridani Edict has been established since Honor of the Queen as the single foreign policy in Solarian history that would unite the League to act. Can we please move on from this ridiculous analogy?

Lets keep in mind that the EE attack on Beowulf is in fact nothing less that the Detweiler revenge as planned 600 years ago. It will be the single act that will shatter the League as a whole. Shatter it so badly that entire SLN units will revolt against the Mandarins and their supporters.

Just EEEEWWWW.

Ugh I feel dirty for writing this post now thanks a lot.

To the rest of the forum, I apologize.

That's your idea of nasty? You call that put into perspective? I'd be very happy if life was so pretty.

If ever the phrase "Don't shoot the messenger" is needed, it is now.

BrightSoul wrote:OK, so what you are saying is that since you are stepping out on your abuser with a new man that child rape is ok in the community's eyes.

Those kinds of atrocities only has to be ok to the sick perpetrators who commit them. What the community thinks doesn't save the innocent children.

At any rate, don't heap that crap on me. Believe me, I'm not that kind of guy. But there are people who do feel that way. And they are feeling that way right now, and acting on it even as we speak. The gorilla does. The gorilla is a mean, deceitful, jealous, hairy ape, and Beowulf is its best girl.

I sympathize with you BrightSoul. I understand your disgust. I really do. I am the guy who can't read even a David Weber novel without crying at some point, every time. Almost any book. I was born with way too much compassion. I cried when they shot Old Yeller. I cried when Willie jumped the wall. All through grade school my five sisters would have one eye on the tv and one eye on me. At some point there are going to be tears. I can't watch the news without fear. A baby thrown away and found in a dumpster. I had to retire to my room for days when I came across my first incident of that kind. I'm still not over it. The recent sickening events, several of them of kids found chained to beds in their own home and emaciated. Allowed to wash once every few months I think. One 18 or 19 yr old girl jumped out a window to freedom. She was so emaciated they thought she was barely a teenager. All five of my sisters, nieces and cousins rang me to see if I was alright. They knew that incident rocked my world. These kinds of events tear me asunder. O.J. Simpson is in the news again. I'll never get over what happened to Nicole. The brutal pictures of her and Ron Goldman broke my heart like you wouldn't believe.

My brain is stuffed with those kinds of memories that tear my heart apart. Horrible realities that my heart will never let go. Sometimes I'm ashamed to be human. There was a man in the news some time ago who beat his wife half to death over another man. She made it to safety with a knife still stuck in her. She survived somehow.

I grew up with a beautiful blonde in my neighborhood who was about five years younger than I. Our families were very close. Our paths crossed again in California after she graduated college. A guy from Florida fell in love with her. Madly. He had it bad. I told my friend, lets call her Julie "If you ever dump this guy, he may kill himself." She dumped him. I watched him crash his car into a tree, repeatedly, before I could get to him and take his keys. It didn't matter. A few days later he looked awful. You wouldn't believe the punishment he meted out to himself. Iron Mike Tyson intentionally crashed his car into a tree over Robin Givens. Not sure if that was after he caught her in bed with Brad Pitt or not.

Yet people want to argue with me that human nature isn't as disgusting as I've laid out. You damn right it isn't. It's much much worse. And then some. But I'm not blind to it, even when my eyes are full of tears.

Human nature is one rotten son of a bitch! I'm willing to bet the farm that the stench doesn't affect you even a fraction of how it affects me.

The gorilla's commerce raiding strategy is disgusting.


I've read several posts saying that Beowulf's disaster isn't bad because it is only 20M dead. That's disgusting. One death would bring me to tears. These are people who are loved by someone. By many. And they didn't deserve to die. I'm still not over the Mueller School Dome collapse. Or the later bus load full of kids killed.

I'm still not over a bird I killed at about 11-yrs-old with a BB gun.

The truth about human nature? Can you handle the truth?

Not only is the League losing its best girl. It's losing her to who they consider their worst enemy. A bunch of phucking pissant neobarbs that they abhor.

Human nature has NEVER been able to stomach losing its best girl to its worst enemy. Not even to its best enemy.

I'm taken aback that the thought is so difficult for many of you.

Would you like losing your best girl to your worst enemy?

Several people have pointed out that Beowulf has a right to secede. But had it not been for the bigger boyfriend with the much bigger Manty muscles, do you think Beowulf ever would have?

If it was not for the RMN, do you think the Mandarins would let it fly? Beowulf would have gotten the crap beat out of her if there was no Manticore.


To add insult to injury, Beowulf was strutting around with her new beau, wearing all of the new things her new, rich beau had bought for her and put it all on display, rubbing all of the new items in the face of her old husband. Look what he gave me!

Human nature doesn't change from application to application.

A bit of perspective here.
You have a group of people who are their respective heads of government ministries who effectivly control the League. They are part of a system which had degenerated/evolved over centuries as one massive power & influence game so awash in corruption that a bath in a cesspool would be refreshing (and even healthy) compaired to it.
So now they can't belive their positions (and also now probably their lives) are endangered because they system isn't actually functiong as it should, forces outside it will not play along----and now they have to wonder if just perhaps those uncivilized and now massively stronger and advanced neo-barbs are right about another VERY OUTSIDE FORCE HAS BEEN MANIPULATING THE SYSTEM FOR AT LEAST DECADES- and "we" never saw a thing.
Their current choice of solutions is to try and kill and imtimidate as many people as possible to force things back to their version of reality. That does't look (from the reader's perspective) like it will end well.

So, something that may or may not be interpreted as an EE event (not if it is not involving a strike on a planet) is part of the plan by the Alignment or it is something that is either intentional or an accident by SLN forces and has the same effect, it will affect the nominal solidarity of the League very badly.
In the end, that is a win for the Alignmenet since it will hasten the League's destruction. Remember, they don't care how many normal people get killed in this as long as the Alignment is ascendant.
"Only" 20 million killed at Beowulf- for the Alignment that leaves plenty of people to end up knowing Beowulf failed and it's antiquated and limited view of the true advancement of Humanity has been eclipsed [soon to be extinguished] by the Detweiler Plan....they just don't know it yet. Rub their faces in it for a few decades once we hold full power and use their people for experimental stock.....yeah, that's the ticket.

See, all a question of perspective. 20 million is perhaps the cull size of experiments on Darius a T-year. Not a problem for the Alignment.

Matter of fact. When the husband came calling with a chip on his shoulder, Beowulf was holding hands with her new beau, rubbing his muscles and daring the husband to do something about it. LOL

She even introduced him. "Honey, come stand in front of the camera so this idiot can see you, please."

"Hi there, idiot!"

Dollars to donuts, Tsang was overheating something fierce under her bonnet.

Brigade XO wrote:A bit of perspective here.
You have a group of people who are their respective heads of government ministries who effectivly control the League. They are part of a system which had degenerated/evolved over centuries as one massive power & influence game so awash in corruption that a bath in a cesspool would be refreshing (and even healthy) compaired to it.
So now they can't belive their positions (and also now probably their lives) are endangered because they system isn't actually functiong as it should, forces outside it will not play along----and now they have to wonder if just perhaps those uncivilized and now massively stronger and advanced neo-barbs are right about another VERY OUTSIDE FORCE HAS BEEN MANIPULATING THE SYSTEM FOR AT LEAST DECADES- and "we" never saw a thing.
Their current choice of solutions is to try and kill and imtimidate as many people as possible to force things back to their version of reality. That does't look (from the reader's perspective) like it will end well.

So, something that may or may not be interpreted as an EE event (not if it is not involving a strike on a planet) is part of the plan by the Alignment or it is something that is either intentional or an accident by SLN forces and has the same effect, it will affect the nominal solidarity of the League very badly.
In the end, that is a win for the Alignmenet since it will hasten the League's destruction. Remember, they don't care how many normal people get killed in this as long as the Alignment is ascendant.
"Only" 20 million killed at Beowulf- for the Alignment that leaves plenty of people to end up knowing Beowulf failed and it's antiquated and limited view of the true advancement of Humanity has been eclipsed [soon to be extinguished] by the Detweiler Plan....they just don't know it yet. Rub their faces in it for a few decades once we hold full power and use their people for experimental stock.....yeah, that's the ticket.

See, all a question of perspective. 20 million is perhaps the cull size of experiments on Darius a T-year. Not a problem for the Alignment.

Interesting post.

I got a feeling that the Alignment are going to be shocked and very sorry at what Beowulf becomes, without the sorry piece of shi— err dead weight that was holding her back.

Now that I think of it, the entire sordid affair smacks of "Helen of Troy who was married to King Menelaus of Sparta, but eloped with Prince Paris of Troy, resulting in the Trojan War when the Achaeans set out to reclaim her and bring her back to Sparta."

'Taint nothing new, this thing called human nature.

cthia wrote::idea:

Now that I think of it, the entire sordid affair smacks of "Helen of Troy who was married to King Menelaus of Sparta, but eloped with Prince Paris of Troy, resulting in the Trojan War when the Achaeans set out to reclaim her and bring her back to Sparta."

'Taint nothing new, this thing called human nature.

As far as the SLN is concerned, every ship the RMN has is a Trojan Horse...

"WTF is that?!"

The SLN needs one helluva big Trojan Horse of its own to get its girl back.

cthia wrote:Several people have pointed out that Beowulf has a right to secede. But had it not been for the bigger boyfriend with the much bigger Manty muscles, do you think Beowulf ever would have?

If it was not for the RMN, do you think the Mandarins would let it fly? Beowulf would have gotten the crap beat out of her if there was no Manticore.

they would probably have done it differently but beowulf was always going to leave once they accepted that they could not save/rehabilitate the League.

yes the RMN's ability to enforce it when they tell the SLN to get lost makes them invaluable allies but Bw is a solly CORE world, they have the money to build and research new things, just like the RMN did.

might have been do it secretly a bit harder as the SL likely paid more attention to BW then it did to the SEM but not impossible when solly ONI is a useless as it is.

would have taken a lot of planning and likely even longer without a war or 2 to pressure innovation but still very doable.

I don't really disagree with Cthia about human nature. I am a preacher and I can wax eloquent on the subject myself.

But, isn't this exercizing a bit of tunnel vision? Not only do you have the Mandarins, St. Just and the Detweilers, you also have Eloise, Honor, Alfred and Allison, and yes, Elizabeth, who are commited to spending the energy of their lives in the service of others. Then there are lots of others who fall somewhere in the middle, sharing in the flaws of humanity as a whole, but still wanting to be decent people.

What it all amounts to is that even after the dark side of human nature, bottom line is that we are an incredibly complicated mix of both good and evil. And even the best of us mirror that in our hearts.

Don

-