Remaining holes in SLN intel

cthia wrote:
How can they hope to even psychologically manipulate the vote without a real show of force? Any SLN force isn't a real show of force.

It'd be like trying to rob a bank with a known plastic gun. I'd sure like to know what force mix they sent to do the dirty deed.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Dauntless wrote:given how little missile defence a SLN SD design has compared to even a late first war pre pod design let alone a SD(P) then nothing beyond first gen MDMs was needed to tip the balance and turn every SLN SD into a SLOW moving target.

That depends on the target the SLN SDs are going after. If the RMN only has MDMs, no pods, no improved compensators then they have a hard time both staying out of the SLN's SDM missile envelope AND having enough time (and missiles) to erode away vast numerical superiority if the SLN comes for a target that the RMN can't abandon.

For example, if 500 Scientist and Vega class SDs came over the wall on a zero-zero intercept for Manticore itself you've got about 4 and quarter hours before they're in orbit. Having 150 or so Gryphon class SDs, even upgraded to fire MDMs, without any pods and without the accuracy boost of Apollo, you're going to have a very hard time killing enough of them to stop the SLN juggernaught.

Theemile wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:That depends on the target the SLN SDs are going after. If the RMN only has MDMs, no pods, no improved compensators then they have a hard time both staying out of the SLN's SDM missile envelope AND having enough time (and missiles) to erode away vast numerical superiority if the SLN comes for a target that the RMN can't abandon.

For example, if 500 Scientist and Vega class SDs came over the wall on a zero-zero intercept for Manticore itself you've got about 4 and quarter hours before they're in orbit. Having 150 or so Gryphon class SDs, even upgraded to fire MDMs, without any pods and without the accuracy boost of Apollo, you're going to have a very hard time killing enough of them to stop the SLN juggernaught.

And don't forget, the SLN has 2 stage missiles now. Given time, they can match any range the RMN can. Now their targeting sux - even against non-Apollo RMN platforms, the warheads are anemic, and the missile's top velocity is low (though it can generate high Delta V during the attack phase.)But they can d controlled attacks at long ranges.

cthia wrote:As an aside:

This prompted me to investigate the difference between the sizes of aircraft carriers of the world. Some nations must react towards the U.S. carriers as the SLN reacts to Manty BCs and SDs.
*SNIP*

São Paulo (A12), Brazil
São Paulo (A12) is the eighth biggest aircraft carrier, weighing more than 32,000t at full load. It is a Clemenceau-Class aircraft carrier currently operated by the Brazilian Navy. Originally commissioned by French Navy in 1963 as Foch (R99), the carrier was sold to Brazil in 2000.

The São Paulo can complement 1,920 crew, including 1,338 ship’s company and 582 Air Group crew. Its flight deck can accommodate 39 aircraft including fighters, fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters.

The armament aboard the ship includes SACP Crotale EDIR systems, Simbad launchers and naval guns for protection against surface and aerial threats. The six boilers generating 126,000shp make São Paulo one of the most powerful conventional aircraft carriers in operation. The propulsion system of the vessel provides a maximum speed of 32kt.

Dauntless wrote:I think that MDM capable Gryphons would still put up a much better fight then many suggest.

though I do agree that a first gen podnought is needed to truly demonstrate just how much junk the reserve has become.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Dauntless wrote:I think that MDM capable Gryphons would still put up a much better fight then many suggest.

though I do agree that a first gen podnought is needed to truly demonstrate just how much junk the reserve has become.

The only issue is that they lack the concentrated punch of an SD(P) so it takes longer to erode away an enemy. They'd be awesome units in a running battle. Use your acceleration (which even with pre-war compensators isn't that much worse than a Scientist) to hold the range open and bleed the enemy while he can't hurt you.

The only issue is if you run out of room to lead him by the nose (such as when several times your numbers head straight for your home planet)


1 on 1 they'd eat a Scientist for lunch unless it somehow got the drop on them within energy range. Even 2 or 3 to one, with range to play with or a target you're ultimately willing to abandon they'd bleed an attacker for little to no damage themselves. About the only thing they can't do is, while badly outnumbered, kill a swarm of SDs fast enough to keep them from reaching a target that can't run.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:Did the Gryphon class ever have the ability to launch MDMs?

As far as I remember, the earliest MDMs were launched by the earliest Minotaur-class CLACs. The earliest MDM-capable SDs were all pod launched designs.

Maybe I missed something. I suspect that it would be horribly ugly to retrofit an existing combatant like a Gryphon to carry MDMs. MDMs are much larger than single-drive missiles so your entire launching system and magazine would have to be redesigned.