Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

Bluesqueak wrote:

kzt wrote:The purpose of the Green Park nuke is to highlight the double standards of the Mesan Alignment.

No, the purpose was to highlight the double standard of the protagonists. It’s OK is we accidentally kill a few thousand innocent kids because our hears are pure, and besides, the end justifies the means.

Well. At least we're now down to 'accidental'.

Next target is to blame the right characters...[/quote]


No one has said that at all. You are setting up a straw man. It is bad to kill kids.

But Zilwicki had no idea that his work might lead to that.

If even the Detweilers grant that, why are you so ardent in pursuit?

Are you even more evil than the Dets?

ldwechsler wrote:No one has said that at all. You are setting up a straw man. It is bad to kill kids.

But Zilwicki had no idea that his work might lead to that.

If even the Detweilers grant that, why are you so ardent in pursuit?

Are you even more evil than the Dets?

There are traditionally significant repercussions for your actions that result in large numbers of innocent people dying violently. The fact that you didn't intend to kill them isn't a viable excuse. Not is "I was just following orders."

kzt wrote:There are traditionally significant repercussions for your actions that result in large numbers of innocent people dying violently. The fact that you didn't intend to kill them isn't a viable excuse. Not is "I was just following orders."

Yes, which we see at Final Flourish. Maybe once there were innocents. Now there are only varying shades of culpability. Maybe Simoes is innocent, oh wait isn't he a traitor too?

kzt wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:No one has said that at all. You are setting up a straw man. It is bad to kill kids.

But Zilwicki had no idea that his work might lead to that.

If even the Detweilers grant that, why are you so ardent in pursuit?

Are you even more evil than the Dets?

There are traditionally significant repercussions for your actions that result in large numbers of innocent people dying violently. The fact that you didn't intend to kill them isn't a viable excuse. Not is "I was just following orders."

Sounds like the idea of "kill them all, God will sort out the innocent."

If you want guilt for that, why not the Detweilers who ran a criminal exercise that enslaved millions and was only a diversion?

Why not blame the slaves who took no part in the whole thing but kept Mesa going?

How about sailors on ships that ever did business with anyone from Mesa? Or from planets that accepted what Mesa did or at least did nothing? See all trillions of people in the League.

Why not the people on Manticore and Haven who trained Zilwicki and Cachat?

Why not the cobbler on Grayson who made Zilwicki's shoes? (I don't know that was the case...I'm being a bit extreme here.)

In war, shit happens.

ldwechsler wrote: Sounds like the idea of "kill them all, God will sort out the innocent."

If you want guilt for that, why not the Detweilers who ran a criminal exercise that enslaved millions and was only a diversion?

Why not blame the slaves who took no part in the whole thing but kept Mesa going?

How about sailors on ships that ever did business with anyone from Mesa? Or from planets that accepted what Mesa did or at least did nothing? See all trillions of people in the League.

Why not the people on Manticore and Haven who trained Zilwicki and Cachat?

Why not the cobbler on Grayson who made Zilwicki's shoes? (I don't know that was the case...I'm being a bit extreme here.)

In war, shit happens.

Exactly. The rules (Geneva Conventions I&II) say minimise civilian casualties, not zero civilian casualties. Even the EEE allows for OOPS, and allows the planetary government to land KEWs on rebel positions.

That is why there ore rules of engagement(ROE) and parameters to jump from one se tto another. And SOPs to cover the gray areas.

pappilon wrote:Exactly. The rules (Geneva Conventions I&II) say minimise civilian casualties, not zero civilian casualties. Even the EEE allows for OOPS, and allows the planetary government to land KEWs on rebel positions.

That is why there ore rules of engagement(ROE) and parameters to jump from one se tto another. And SOPs to cover the gray areas.

They make terror attacks on civilian populations a war crime. Which people got executed for after WW2.

kzt wrote:

pappilon wrote:Exactly. The rules (Geneva Conventions I&II) say minimise civilian casualties, not zero civilian casualties. Even the EEE allows for OOPS, and allows the planetary government to land KEWs on rebel positions.

That is why there ore rules of engagement(ROE) and parameters to jump from one se tto another. And SOPs to cover the gray areas.

They make terror attacks on civilian populations a war crime. Which people got executed for after WW2.

Only if you were on the losing side. The folks who firebombed Dresden and Tokyo along with dropping a bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki all walked.

Don

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pappilon wrote:The locator had two inherent possibilities IIRC (maybe not likely):
1) It could bring concerned individuals or the authorities to the location of the device, or 2)it could be used to remotely detonate the device.

Option one is bad option 2 is ... OOPS.

I do not think anyone would build #2. However, they very well might build a destruct--a low power detonation of the bomb. Fire it but don't pinch enough, blow the device to bits but not a nuclear explosion.

(Something like this can be done with current atomic devices. Fire one detonator--the device is destroyed, you have bits of the pit scattered about but you don't get a nuclear yield. Hollywood almost always gets this wrong--it's always about getting the bomb to safe location before it's timer runs down but any bomb that you can do that to you can get close enough to destroy with conventional explosives, or even a big shaped charge if you want to shave a tiny sliver of time off the time the bomb could possibly react.)

n7axw wrote:

kzt wrote:They make terror attacks on civilian populations a war crime. Which people got executed for after WW2.

Only if you were on the losing side. The folks who firebombed Dresden and Tokyo along with dropping a bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki all walked.

Don

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Dresden was a war crime. None of the Japanese cases are war crimes, though.

We burned Tokyo because the Japanese industry was decentralized, we had no other way to destroy the war industry other than to destroy the cities it was in.

The same thing applies to the nukes--every city was a valid target.

Loren Pechtel wrote:Dresden was a war crime. None of the Japanese cases are war crimes, though.

We burned Tokyo because the Japanese industry was decentralized, we had no other way to destroy the war industry other than to destroy the cities it was in.

The same thing applies to the nukes--every city was a valid target.

It is really hard to argue that a park full of kids is a valid military target.

So it is either a terrorist attack or an edict violation.

And if you don't want the whole seccie terrorist line that the MA is selling to be successful you need to address it, because it really was a seccie terrorist attack supported by Mannticore, Torch and Haven intelligence agencies. And I suspect that pretty good evidence will emerge at an inopportune moment for the SEM, which will undermine any claims that are made about the other bombs.