What is Earth's government

[quote="Bluesqueak"][quote="pappilon"]

Brexit is in fact an example of how difficult it is to create a new nation from already pre-existing old nations Myself, I'd say the reason the UK was the first to go was because the legal and political differences from the EU were quite large - much larger than for most of the Continental European nations. Add that to the EU trying to unify too fast, and the population who had the most changes to make became the most pissed off.

Add to this a lack of compromise from the EU, who think that the evident problems can be solved by faster, not slower unification. Then have a vote.

Actually you left out a couple of factors. First, a general feeling that Britain is paying for subsidies to free-loaders and not gettingback its dues proportion of the U budget, and second, a public perceptions that the mainland EU countries are deliberately failing to expel bogus asylum seekers and instead facilitating their efforts to smuggle them into Britain for our higher State benefits, while denying us the right to refuse those benefits.

Cheers, John

John Prigent wrote:

Bluesqueak wrote:
Brexit is in fact an example of how difficult it is to create a new nation from already pre-existing old nations Myself, I'd say the reason the UK was the first to go was because the legal and political differences from the EU were quite large - much larger than for most of the Continental European nations. Add that to the EU trying to unify too fast, and the population who had the most changes to make became the most pissed off.

Add to this a lack of compromise from the EU, who think that the evident problems can be solved by faster, not slower unification. Then have a vote.

Actually you left out a couple of factors. First, a general feeling that Britain is paying for subsidies to free-loaders and not gettingback its dues proportion of the U budget, and second, a public perceptions that the mainland EU countries are deliberately failing to expel bogus asylum seekers and instead facilitating their efforts to smuggle them into Britain for our higher State benefits, while denying us the right to refuse those benefits.

Cheers, John

[/quote]
To be honest, when I talk to other people who voted to Leave, neither of those things were their major concern.

Bluesqueak wrote:

John Prigent wrote:
Brexit is in fact an example of how difficult it is to create a new nation from already pre-existing old nations Myself, I'd say the reason the UK was the first to go was because the legal and political differences from the EU were quite large - much larger than for most of the Continental European nations. Add that to the EU trying to unify too fast, and the population who had the most changes to make became the most pissed off.

Add to this a lack of compromise from the EU, who think that the evident problems can be solved by faster, not slower unification. Then have a vote.

Actually you left out a couple of factors. First, a general feeling that Britain is paying for subsidies to free-loaders and not gettingback its dues proportion of the U budget, and second, a public perceptions that the mainland EU countries are deliberately failing to expel bogus asylum seekers and instead facilitating their efforts to smuggle them into Britain for our higher State benefits, while denying us the right to refuse those benefits.

Cheers, John

[/quote]
To be honest, when I talk to other people who voted to Leave, neither of those things were their major concern.[/quote]

These things don't matter. Remember that Macron said that the French would probably vote to leave. A lot of the Eastern Europeans have pushed back very hard. There is a lot of pressure in both Italy and Greece about leaving.

Bureaucratic government does not work well. But the elites in all the European countries gave up their people's rights in order to 'feather their own nests.'

ldwechsler wrote:These things don't matter. Remember that Macron said that the French would probably vote to leave. A lot of the Eastern Europeans have pushed back very hard. There is a lot of pressure in both Italy and Greece about leaving.

Bureaucratic government does not work well. But the elites in all the European countries gave up their people's rights in order to 'feather their own nests.'

Actually, I always thought that one of the reasons some people voted in favour of Brexit was all the people who came on television & in the media extolling the economic benefits of staying in the EU.

It was their chance to get back at the greedy fat cats who were intent on lining their own pockets, particularly with greedy bankers. After all many of the ordinary people, especially from the depressed areas had no chance to benefit from the economic trough those pigs had stuck the snouts in.

P.S. Do I get a prize for all the metaphors I have mixed?

Please take the EU bashing to the Politics sub-forum. The EU is completely irrelevant to whatever Earth's planetary government is in ~2,000 years, especially after a destructive Final War which killed >95% of the global population.

You may as well blame the Roman Caesars for stuff the EU does.

munroburton wrote:Please take the EU bashing to the Politics sub-forum. The EU is completely irrelevant to whatever Earth's planetary government is in ~2,000 years, especially after a destructive Final War which killed >95% of the global population.

You may as well blame the Roman Caesars for stuff the EU does.

Yes please.

My OP was trying to make the point that most Honorverse planets have a single government because they generally started from a single colony, which already had a homogenous planet-wide political system planned. Everyone started out seeing the entire planet as their 'nation'. I should probably have used the fictional Earth Union as my example of what happens when you don't start from that point.

But my guess is that Earth probably now has a single government because the Final War was the final war of the nation states. Certainly, the hints we have about the final war talk about it in terms that sound like 'nations'

munroburton wrote:Please take the EU bashing to the Politics sub-forum. The EU is completely irrelevant to whatever Earth's planetary government is in ~2,000 years, especially after a destructive Final War which killed >95% of the global population.

You may as well blame the Roman Caesars for stuff the EU does.

Actually there is a relevance to the Honorverse (of sorts) as didn't the Earth Union arose out of the European Union after a financial crisis which then came to be dominated by Greens & Neo-Luddites?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

Rincewind wrote:

munroburton wrote:Please take the EU bashing to the Politics sub-forum. The EU is completely irrelevant to whatever Earth's planetary government is in ~2,000 years, especially after a destructive Final War which killed >95% of the global population.

You may as well blame the Roman Caesars for stuff the EU does.

Actually there is a relevance to the Honorverse (of sorts) as didn't the Earth Union arose out of the European Union after a financial crisis which then came to be dominated by Greens & Neo-Luddites?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

The unreliable wiki says the Green and Neoluddite dominated Earth Union came out of the United Nations. However, this "EU" wasn't even around for the Final War - it collapsed some five to seven hundred years beforehand, due to a financial crisis which saw the Greens and Luddites' tyranny ended.

Rincewind wrote:

munroburton wrote:Please take the EU bashing to the Politics sub-forum. The EU is completely irrelevant to whatever Earth's planetary government is in ~2,000 years, especially after a destructive Final War which killed >95% of the global population.

You may as well blame the Roman Caesars for stuff the EU does.

Actually there is a relevance to the Honorverse (of sorts) as didn't the Earth Union arose out of the European Union after a financial crisis which then came to be dominated by Greens & Neo-Luddites?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

The unreliable wiki says the Green and Neoluddite dominated Earth Union came out of the United Nations. However, this "EU" wasn't even around for the Final War - it collapsed some five to seven hundred years beforehand, due to a financial crisis which saw the Greens and Luddites' tyranny ended.[/quote]

It hardly matters as we have far too little info. Also it is clear that Terra will be the center of a far smaller League.
So let's talk serious subjects.

munroburton wrote:

Rincewind wrote:Actually there is a relevance to the Honorverse (of sorts) as didn't the Earth Union arose out of the European Union after a financial crisis which then came to be dominated by Greens & Neo-Luddites?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

The unreliable wiki says the Green and Neoluddite dominated Earth Union came out of the United Nations. However, this "EU" wasn't even around for the Final War - it collapsed some five to seven hundred years beforehand, due to a financial crisis which saw the Greens and Luddites' tyranny ended.

I knew that the Earth Union had collapsed well before Earth's Final War; (in 252 PD with the Financial Crash & Economic Winter). In fact, I always thought that it set a trend of revulsion against strong centralised Earth government which lasted until the Final War.

On another point, ever since I read the description of the Solarian League in Storm from the Shadows I always thought that it was based on the EU. Nothing I have read since has shaken me in that conviction, especially when I see how the EU as a whole reacted to Brexit or Spain's reaction to the Catalan call for a referendum.