Remaining holes in SLN intel

Loren Pechtel wrote:

cthia wrote:Honor talking to Kingsford bOggles tHe mInd.

...and the Salamander peered into the HD monitor, feeling the power course through her veins from the many souls sitting in the metal about her, and her cold brown eyes, this time, were even harder than flint. "We'll be expecting the delivery of Sir Lyman Carmichael and his entire delegation within the hour."

And note that if they do not comply she is free to use KEW strikes. The Edict does not apply because they were given the opportunity to surrender and continued resistance instead.

Well, no not really. First, as far as we know Kingsford is not actually part of Earth's government. He's Second, I'm pretty sure you can't simply give an impossible demand and then unleash a KEW when your demands aren't met so if Carmichael and his delegation have been executed they obviously can't be delivered. Although in that case she would probably want the remains...

That gives me yet another idea! Execute Carmichael via insidious and deadly weaponized plague. The sort of thing that spreads easily while not showing symptoms, and when it finally does show symptoms its too late to save the infected. Call it... "Space Rabies". When they invariably ask for his remains say they can't do that because Carmichael died of "Space Rabies". They'll be incredulous then you can add some more detail like "Okay, he was actually executed by a Marine. That Marine had a pulsar. But still Carmichael is under an official quarantine for Space Rabies." They demand Carmichael anyway, and then in a couple months they all start dying of Space Rabies. Then you pop over the Hyperwall and say "We know how to stop it, but we demand your unconditional surrender for your violation of the Edict by unleashing a bioweapon." Its also important to vaccinate your population ahead of time!

Man, I hope Carmichael makes it.

Loren Pechtel wrote:And note that if they do not comply she is free to use KEW strikes. The Edict does not apply because they were given the opportunity to surrender and continued resistance instead.

No, the edict still applies. Once called upon to surrender you can attack military or government targets with selective weapons, even WMDs as long as the collateral damage in not unreasonable.

kzt wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:And note that if they do not comply she is free to use KEW strikes. The Edict does not apply because they were given the opportunity to surrender and continued resistance instead.

No, the edict still applies. Once called upon to surrender you can attack military or government targets with selective weapons, even WMDs as long as the collateral damage in not unreasonable.

Remember, the mood of the Salamander lacks amusement.

When she gave any of her past ultimatums, like "Strike your wedge" or "Do not attempt to wipe your computers," I don't imagine that "Fire!" was far from her lips.

The location of the Mandarins is dialed in to a fare thee well.

kzt wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:And note that if they do not comply she is free to use KEW strikes. The Edict does not apply because they were given the opportunity to surrender and continued resistance instead.

No, the edict still applies. Once called upon to surrender you can attack military or government targets with selective weapons, even WMDs as long as the collateral damage in not unreasonable.

Let's Face IT
If the Salamander enters your orbitals and issues an ultimatum.

Your very next move better be the right one.

"Stop! Don't think about it! Sally come all the way across the galaxy to see you."

THINK ABOUT YOUR NEXT MOVE VERY VERY CAREFULLY

cthia wrote:Let's Face IT
If the Salamander enters your orbitals and issues an ultimatum.

Your very next move better be the right one.

"Stop! Don't think about it! Sally come all the way across the galaxy to see you."

THINK ABOUT YOUR NEXT MOVE VERY VERY CAREFULLY

You really don't want to be figuring out what to do in that situation. You want to plan ahead and already have multiple next moves planned for when ships show up in orbit and threaten to bombard you.

cthia wrote:
When she gave any of her past ultimatums, like "Strike your wedge" or "Do not attempt to wipe your computers," I don't imagine that "Fire!" was far from her lips.

I still think in the First Battle for Manticore the the correct response to that was putting the ships on autopilot heading on a course that buzzed the planet, all the weapons on computer control, then hitting the escape pods. Its not like she was gonna shoot the escape pods. The planets defense fleet was gone, IIRC. Sure the missile pods or Honor could have probably killed any ships heading towards the planet on autopilot, but could they do it without the the shattered wreckage killing millions on the planet?

Maybe, but it would have denied them the ships and made them burn missiles.

This is especially true since when Honor surrendered to Haven they didn't make those sorts of demands. If Honor wants to play hardball, then play hardball right back.

"If you'll allow me to confide in you, a bit, off the record? Good! If I was the SLN CO, I'd order my own crew to 'Seize me immediately! Separate me from all sharp objects, buttons, mics and pulsers.' If the Salamander was in orbit issuing me ultimatums? I'd make sure I couldn't do anything stupid. MAlign or League compulsive!"

quite possibly a cat wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:And note that if they do not comply she is free to use KEW strikes. The Edict does not apply because they were given the opportunity to surrender and continued resistance instead.

Well, no not really. First, as far as we know Kingsford is not actually part of Earth's government. He's Second, I'm pretty sure you can't simply give an impossible demand and then unleash a KEW when your demands aren't met so if Carmichael and his delegation have been executed they obviously can't be delivered. Although in that case she would probably want the remains...

Yeah, you can't make impossible demands but you can demand the government produce them. Obviously, they might only be able to produce remains.

Perhaps I missed something, but why do we think the Mandarins have their hands on Carmichael?

phillies wrote:Perhaps I missed something, but why do we think the Mandarins have their hands on Carmichael?

Pure speculation. I think it's unlikely myself. He was in the Beowulf compound the last we saw him. My own speculation is that he pulled out with the Beowulf delegation and is probably back in Manticore, No textev on either the Beowulf delegation or Carmichael.

But I think that the presence of either on Sol is highly unlikely.

Don

-

n7axw wrote:

phillies wrote:Perhaps I missed something, but why do we think the Mandarins have their hands on Carmichael?

Pure speculation. I think it's unlikely myself. He was in the Beowulf compound the last we saw him. My own speculation is that he pulled out with the Beowulf delegation and is probably back in Manticore, No textev on either the Beowulf delegation or Carmichael.

That is the last time Carmichael is seen on-screen, but nor the last time he's mentioned:

[quote"A rising Thunder
Chapter Thirty-five"]“Well, if we’re going to take the position that Beowulf has no right to secede,” MacArtney said, “then Hadley and the rest of their delegation have just committed treason.” He smiled nastily. “That being the case, I think they should be arrested and prevented from leaving the system!”

Oh, that’s a marvelous idea, Kolokoltsov thought bitterly.

“Nathan’s probably right,” Quartermain put in, and Wodoslawski was nodding again.

“And if we’re talking about arresting the bastards for treason over this secession crap,” MacArtney went on, “I think we should consider whether or not their decision to harbor Carmichael doesn’t constitute another act of treason!” His smile was even uglier than before. “If we put the arm on them, then we’re in a position to put the arm on him as well.”

“Whoa! Just slow down, Nathan!” Abruzzi said sharply. “If we start throwing terms like ‘treason’ around now, and start strong-arming Assembly delegates before this plebiscite of theirs has even been voted on, the rest of the delegates are going to raise merry hell. Not because they’re all that fond of Beowulf, either! You think they won’t see that as a precedent that could come home to bite them too?”

“I’m not so sure it would be a bad thing if they did,” MacArtney shot back. “If they figure out we’re going to hammer anybody who looks like they’re turning on us, then they’ll probably think twice—or even three times!—about doing just that.”

“This isn’t the Verge, and we’re not talking about OFS protectorates,” Abruzzi said flatly. “We’re talking about Core Worlds. We’re talking about star systems that have the internal industry to build significant navies of their own if the urge strikes them. We’re already looking at a confrontation against somebody whose weapons technology we can’t match, and you want to go around irritating our own star systems into deciding they have to build a military capability to protect themselves from us?”

The permanent senior undersecretary of education and information shook his head, his expression incredulous, and MacArtney flushed angrily. He opened his mouth to snap something back, but Kolokoltsov raised one hand in a “stop” gesture.

“Calm down, Nathan. And you, Malachai.” He shook his head. “You and Omosupe and Agatá have raised valid concerns, Nathan. But Malachai has a point, too. If we start resorting to the kind of tactics you’re suggesting, we up the ante for everybody, and right this minute, we can’t afford that.”

“We can’t afford not to,” MacArtney replied stubbornly, and Quartermain nodded. Wodoslawski seemed more torn, however, Kolokoltsov noted. “If we don’t get our heel firmly on this kind of thing now, we never will.”

“But Malachai’s right that we can’t get our heel on it right now,” Kolokoltsov said inflexibly. “We literally can’t. So if we try to grab Hadley and Carmichael, we only run the risk of alienating the other Core Worlds at a time when our weakness is going to be obvious to everyone. Especially when grabbing Hadley and Carmichael is the only thing we can do, because we sure as hell aren’t going to be able to follow through by arresting the rest of the Beowulf system government!”

[/quote]


Whether he's still on Earth and captive of the Mandarins depends on whether Kolokoltsov or MacArtney and Quartermain prevail in the argument cited above.

Judging from the SLN's idea of "commerce raiding" I would bet on the "iron fist" faction winning control and incarceration or worse for Carmichael and the Beowulf delegation.