[Spoiler - UH] utube snippet

cthia wrote:Watch out Honor and Nimitz. Clean Killer and Harahap have just entered the race for the deadliest dynamic duo. The Batman and Robin of crime fighting.

Will Harahap and Clean Killer break the record for the most kills on HD? Now playing onscreen at a Cosmos near you, amongst oohs and ahs, clapping and cheering -- leering and jeering as well if you include the catcalls of the perverts turned on by a woman kicking ass. Literally kicking ass. The raw power emanating from the long legs of a genetically enhanced Sphinxian may make you know what a missile feels like coming out a tube.

Albeit, Nimitz is no Clean Killer, judging from the mess he made of the Faithful.

I imagine Nimitz says <I get enough of clean, minding my manners eating celery.>

Unless we're counting kills by subordinates, the most kills goes to Shannon Foraker who took out multiple super-dreadnoughts by herself. I think this also means she's won the most lopsided battle while being the underdog as well. If I was Manticorian I would just feel silly about the Edward Saganami tradition after learning about the Shannon tradition.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:Watch out Honor and Nimitz. Clean Killer and Harahap have just entered the race for the deadliest dynamic duo. The Batman and Robin of crime fighting.

Will Harahap and Clean Killer break the record for the most kills on HD? Now playing onscreen at a Cosmos near you, amongst oohs and ahs, clapping and cheering -- leering and jeering as well if you include the catcalls of the perverts turned on by a woman kicking ass. Literally kicking ass. The raw power emanating from the long legs of a genetically enhanced Sphinxian may make you know what a missile feels like coming out a tube.

Albeit, Nimitz is no Clean Killer, judging from the mess he made of the Faithful.

I imagine Nimitz says <I get enough of clean, minding my manners eating celery.>

Unless we're counting kills by subordinates, the most kills goes to Shannon Foraker who took out multiple super-dreadnoughts by herself. I think this also means she's won the most lopsided battle while being the underdog as well. If I was Manticorian I would just feel silly about the Edward Saganami tradition after learning about the Shannon tradition.

But Shannon wasn't acting as part of a duo. She took matters into her own hands. "Oops."

If we're talking about solitary accomplishments, even though he only took out one ship, Sir Horace's included the bigger prize...

Her Royal Heinous.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:Watch out Honor and Nimitz. Clean Killer and Harahap have just entered the race for the deadliest dynamic duo. The Batman and Robin of crime fighting.

Will Harahap and Clean Killer break the record for the most kills on HD? Now playing onscreen at a Cosmos near you, amongst oohs and ahs, clapping and cheering -- leering and jeering as well if you include the catcalls of the perverts turned on by a woman kicking ass. Literally kicking ass. The raw power emanating from the long legs of a genetically enhanced Sphinxian may make you know what a missile feels like coming out a tube.

Albeit, Nimitz is no Clean Killer, judging from the mess he made of the Faithful.

I imagine Nimitz says <I get enough of clean, minding my manners eating celery.>

Unless we're counting kills by subordinates, the most kills goes to Shannon Foraker who took out multiple super-dreadnoughts by herself. I think this also means she's won the most lopsided battle while being the underdog as well. If I was Manticorian I would just feel silly about the Edward Saganami tradition after learning about the Shannon tradition.

The Peep navy may argue that point of the most lopsided battle won by an underdog. They have so many exhibits to display. Cerberus would be their first exhibit.

Clean Killer has NOT been in combat with humans as far as we have been told. Essentialy he is part of the collateral ( just not specifically expected) damage of Oyster Bay.

Nimitz and the Faithfull was, I believe, our first look at a Treecat fully engaged against humans. Clean Killer MAY have seen the recording of that engagement by Nimitz, either on a vidio dispay or from a Memory Singer.

Given that the Treecats now have sign language as a means of communication, it is entirely likely that Damien is going to get the Standard translation of Clean Killer's name and, if anybody has inquired (or he does) how that came to be applied.

The possibility of listening (and having a look at the inside of Damien's thoughts as he does it) of Harlap responding to Clean Killers questions about what and why he has done what he has done would be fascinating. Harlap considers himself a Professional in his line of work, with all that implies in pride of work, drive to succeed, avoiding problems (and not causing any unessisary ones) and analysis of what he sees of is exposed to. Like his thoughts and analysis of what went on with the various Alignment/ OFS operations and why.
He doesn't really have a choice now but to engage with Clean Killer though both should understand (as Clean Killer appears to) that while Humans can lie and avoid things, Treecats are at least culturally constrained to have to be very roundabout to avoid falsehood, primarily by not saying things.
Harlap is probably going have to go through a LOT or self-examination. He's bonded to a Treecat, one who has a truly burning desire to UNDERSTAND how someone could be even remotely party to what caused the death of BlackRock clan and his sister and nieces and nephews.
Heck, that could be a whole book by itself

Brigade XO wrote:Clean Killer has NOT been in combat with humans as far as we have been told. Essentialy he is part of the collateral ( just not specifically expected) damage of Oyster Bay.

Nimitz and the Faithfull was, I believe, our first look at a Treecat fully engaged against humans. Clean Killer MAY have seen the recording of that engagement by Nimitz, either on a vidio dispay or from a Memory Singer.

Given that the Treecats now have sign language as a means of communication, it is entirely likely that Damien is going to get the Standard translation of Clean Killer's name and, if anybody has inquired (or he does) how that came to be applied.

I suspect that Clean Killer will get his taste of Mesan colored blood. Or a rude thing the author does for denying him, and us, that. Considering the emotional hell he's going through. Throw the poor cat a Mesan bone or three, wontcha?

I would imagine that every treecat in existence knows of the 'Amazing exploits of Nimitz.' Who is also the most famous treecat in existence.

continuing...

Brigade XO wrote:The possibility of listening (and having a look at the inside of Damien's thoughts as he does it) of Harlap responding to Clean Killers questions about what and why he has done what he has done would be fascinating. Harlap considers himself a Professional in his line of work, with all that implies in pride of work, drive to succeed, avoiding problems (and not causing any unessisary ones) and analysis of what he sees of is exposed to. Like his thoughts and analysis of what went on with the various Alignment/ OFS operations and why.
He doesn't really have a choice now but to engage with Clean Killer though both should understand (as Clean Killer appears to) that while Humans can lie and avoid things, Treecats are at least culturally constrained to have to be very roundabout to avoid falsehood, primarily by not saying things.
Harlap is probably going have to go through a LOT or self-examination. He's bonded to a Treecat, one who has a truly burning desire to UNDERSTAND how someone could be even remotely party to what caused the death of BlackRock clan and his sister and nieces and nephews.
Heck, that could be a whole book by itself

You said an interesting mouthful there. You've got my brain working in overdrive Brigade. Really, your posts are so thought provoking. I can spend an eternity inside your head. I like that!

To be honest, I wouldn't have picked Harahap to be the bonding type. Actually, I wouldn't have bet on any spy to want to be bonded, even if his mindglow is tasty. A cat would get in the way of his work. Take Cachat or Zilwicki. They can't afford to be bonded. But if their mindglow is tasty, they better stay out of treecat vicinity. I suppose Harahap better find another career anyways though, but still.

Reading the latest bonding with Harahap makes me go back to one of my original notions that the MAlign could try and discredit treecats across the galaxy and by extension Manticore, by claiming that the entire mechanism of bonding is nothing less than a form of brainwashing by the treecats.

Instantly, the victim is speechless. Stares into nothingness and...

Bim Bam BOOM! VOILA WALLA BANG BANG! BONDED!

They can go on to point out that the Queen of Manticore and her top two officers have been brainwashed and under the influence of an alien species. Humanity is still afraid of the dark. Many in the galaxy, right there in the Manticore Binary system are still oblivious to treecat intelligence. Or are still coming to terms with it and the cats. A very ambitious, malignant propaganda ploy aimed at the bonding mechanism could raise enough doubt in the average citizen in the street that it could cripple Manticoran government. Seriously, I always thought the MAlign were missing a very evil malignant trick. Many paranoid humans would begin to distrust treecats or even be frightened of them and becoming brainwashed. All manipulatively easy peasy in the capable hands of O'handyhand.

See what Brigade's posts make me do? LOL

cthia wrote:Reading the latest bonding with Harahap makes me go back to one of my original notions that the MAlign could try and discredit treecats across the galaxy and by extension Manticore, by claiming that the entire mechanism of bonding is nothing less than a form of brainwashing by the treecats.

Instantly, the victim is speechless. Stares into nothingness and...

Bim Bam BOOM! VOILA WALLA BANG BANG! BONDED!

Wait, can something be propaganda if its true? (Yes, the answer is yes.)

[propaganda]
Surrendering only to attempt to murder the first high value target you come across is called perfidy. Furthermore, its the sort of action that would allow the enemy to justify simply shooting your forces when they surrender hence forth, especially if performed by the ranking officer in the system. This sort of action is the sort of thing no sane or honorable officer would commit.

Now, consider the case of Honor Harrington surrendering to the Peeps. Everyone agrees Honor Harrington is normally very honorable and mostly sane. She surrendered knowing she would be executed for crimes she had already been convicted of. But upon learning that her Treecat partner would be destroyed, who was not a member of the military and not covered by the Deneb accords, she immediately resorts to attempting to murder one of the unarmed Havenites. Every person there could have been justifiably killed at that point, although Cordellia Ransom was kind enough to show mercy despite Harrington's treachery.

Furthermore, after Harrington's eventual escape (accomplished with yet more treachery) far from being reprimanded the Queen, also paired with a Treecat, rewarded Harrington with new "lands" and a new title!

Of course, that is only a single anecdote. To better see the obvious effects of brainwashing we should compare Manticore's treatment of a second alien race. The Medusans. The Treecats were given protections in Manticore's Constitution, their habitats given protection, and they are allowed to freely wander Manticore's worlds and steal whatever they like. Indeed they are well known for the theft of foodstuffs. The Medusans had their lands taken. This despite the fact that the Medusans had shown the ability to speak.

Nor does the brainwashing effect only those bonded to Treecats. There was a rather famous case were a man was attacked by Treecats, and the local police forces went to the aid, of the Treecats! Again compare this to the treatment of Medusans.

Its only gotten worse. Now the Treecats have convinced the Manticorian government they have have the ability to detect any lie and the government trust the Treecat proclamations, no matter how absurd. Indeed it is the supposed basis of proof for the Malign! These are horrifyingly dangerous creatures. The only sane, humane, option is restricting Treecats to Sphinx and removing all humans from the surface. If Manticore isn't willing to do so, other Star Nations must immediately bar Treecats from their systems. Would you allow a Gremlin to wander free? Or a Growler? Or a Medusan? No![/propaganda]

But seriously, Treecats definitely alter the minds of their victims when they bond in a way that could be called brainwashing. I'm still wondering when someone who isn't a Neo-Luddite will make a Treecat-Human Chimera. Or maybe try and use uplifting techniques on Treecats. I thought it was implied that some Earth animals got that? What could possibly go wrong? Don't say Mule.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:Reading the latest bonding with Harahap makes me go back to one of my original notions that the MAlign could try and discredit treecats across the galaxy and by extension Manticore, by claiming that the entire mechanism of bonding is nothing less than a form of brainwashing by the treecats.

Instantly, the victim is speechless. Stares into nothingness and...

Bim Bam BOOM! VOILA WALLA BANG BANG! BONDED!

Wait, can something be propaganda if its true? (Yes, the answer is yes.)

[propaganda]
Surrendering only to attempt to murder the first high value target you come across is called perfidy. Furthermore, its the sort of action that would allow the enemy to justify simply shooting your forces when they surrender hence forth, especially if performed by the ranking officer in the system. This sort of action is the sort of thing no sane or honorable officer would commit.

Now, consider the case of Honor Harrington surrendering to the Peeps. Everyone agrees Honor Harrington is normally very honorable and mostly sane. She surrendered knowing she would be executed for crimes she had already been convicted of. But upon learning that her Treecat partner would be destroyed, who was not a member of the military and not covered by the Deneb accords, she immediately resorts to attempting to murder one of the unarmed Havenites. Every person there could have been justifiably killed at that point, although Cordellia Ransom was kind enough to show mercy despite Harrington's treachery.

Furthermore, after Harrington's eventual escape (accomplished with yet more treachery) far from being reprimanded the Queen, also paired with a Treecat, rewarded Harrington with new "lands" and a new title!

Of course, that is only a single anecdote. To better see the obvious effects of brainwashing we should compare Manticore's treatment of a second alien race. The Medusans. The Treecats were given protections in Manticore's Constitution, their habitats given protection, and they are allowed to freely wander Manticore's worlds and steal whatever they like. Indeed they are well known for the theft of foodstuffs. The Medusans had their lands taken. This despite the fact that the Medusans had shown the ability to speak.

Nor does the brainwashing effect only those bonded to Treecats. There was a rather famous case were a man was attacked by Treecats, and the local police forces went to the aid, of the Treecats! Again compare this to the treatment of Medusans.

Its only gotten worse. Now the Treecats have convinced the Manticorian government they have have the ability to detect any lie and the government trust the Treecat proclamations, no matter how absurd. Indeed it is the supposed basis of proof for the Malign! These are horrifyingly dangerous creatures. The only sane, humane, option is restricting Treecats to Sphinx and removing all humans from the surface. If Manticore isn't willing to do so, other Star Nations must immediately bar Treecats from their systems. Would you allow a Gremlin to wander free? Or a Growler? Or a Medusan? No![/propaganda]

But seriously, Treecats definitely alter the minds of their victims when they bond in a way that could be called brainwashing. I'm still wondering when someone who isn't a Neo-Luddite will make a Treecat-Human Chimera. Or maybe try and use uplifting techniques on Treecats. I thought it was implied that some Earth animals got that? What could possibly go wrong? Don't say Mule.

I agree that propaganda can be true. The best deception plants its roots in truth (the serpent in the Bible) but arranged in such a way to taint the truth or steer perception.


Jiminy Crickets "qpac!" Your propaganda ploy is simply marvelous. You present that as if you're O'hanrahan's right hand man. I've got my eye on you. Better stay out of the range of treecat tradar. LOL

tradar

Telempathic
Radar
Analyzing
Dumbasses
And
Responding

Clean Killer actively focused his tradar on Damien Harahap.


The treecats do seem to prefer top ranking officers and people. I wonder if Nimitz steered Honor's career path from the beginning.

It is also known that the Alignment sought to capture a treecat, which they did but he died in captivity, iinm. Some time after that they perfected a nanite which controls the mind. The nanite is believed to be center stage to so many inexplicable deaths. A nanite technology that even the Manticorans endorse.

When you stir the witches pot, trouble brews, stink emanates and the gravy thickens. If inadequately attended, the pot boileth over.

SUBLIMINAL BRAINWASHING

The illuminating the original epiphany.


Bim Bam BOOM! VOILA WALLA BANG BANG! BONDED!

Actually he'd like to discuss a few things with Zilwicki and Cachat. He admired professionalism, whoever happened to have it.

snip

Besides, he'd like to compare notes with them about Green Pines, given his post terror attacks visit to Mendel.

I don't seem to be able to shake this notion. If Harahap and Givens compare notes about Green Pines, the Manties just may be able to come up with a dossier that unequivocally clears the Manty name.

cthia wrote:

Actually he'd like to discuss a few things with Zilwicki and Cachat. He admired professionalism, whoever happened to have it.

snip

Besides, he'd like to compare notes with them about Green Pines, given his post terror attacks visit to Mendel.

I don't seem to be able to shake this notion. If Harahap and Givens compare notes about Green Pines, the Manties just may be able to come up with a dossier that unequivocally clears the Manty name.

Umm... no. Not if they're being truthful, honest and diligent. The only way to clear the Manties of guilt for Green Pines is with Anton's blood. They'll look bad still, but they'll go from "Mass murdering psychos" to "Negligent on debriefings". Of course doing so would lead to serious fallout. Elizabeth and Cathy would become mortal enemies, the alliance with Torch would be gone, Haven would suddenly be forced to deal with the issue. Worst of all, since the story is probably most damning for Torch, Anton is unlikely to go along and will probably try and shift blame away from Berry. Honor makes a convenient target!

Also I wonder how Clean Killer would feel upon "learning" that the Day of Sorrow was the result of retaliation instead of an unprovoked attack? (Yes, technically it was already underway when Green Pines happened, but Clean Killer wouldn't know!)