Honorverse ramblings and musings

Good analysis.

Brigade XO wrote:I don't recall that the Judean League was a part of the SL, it sounded like it was a collection of systems either in the Verge or beyond it on the other side of the SL from Manticore and the Haven Quadrant.

IIRC, RFC explained the Judean League in one of the infodumps. They are a recent addition to the League, because they are on the fringes of the League. They were too big and prosperous for FF and OFS to play their normal strong-arm games with.

Brigade XO wrote:(somehow SLN has missed or forgotten about Erwhon)

Thank Gov Barregos and Adm Rozhak for that. As far as the League and SLN are concerned, Erewhon is building stock SLN designs to augment Maya's FF forces. Unless the politicians, financiers, and ONI (BF and FF) share some information, everyone is going to "assume" ERewhon is safely in the League's pocket and no more technically advanced than Frontier Fleet, militarily.

Weird Harold wrote:Good analysis.

Brigade XO wrote:I don't recall that the Judean League was a part of the SL, it sounded like it was a collection of systems either in the Verge or beyond it on the other side of the SL from Manticore and the Haven Quadrant.

IIRC, RFC explained the Judean League in one of the infodumps. They are a recent addition to the League, because they are on the fringes of the League. They were too big and prosperous for FF and OFS to play their normal strong-arm games with.

Brigade XO wrote:(somehow SLN has missed or forgotten about Erwhon)

Thank Gov Barregos and Adm Rozhak for that. As far as the League and SLN are concerned, Erewhon is building stock SLN designs to augment Maya's FF forces. Unless the politicians, financiers, and ONI (BF and FF) share some information, everyone is going to "assume" ERewhon is safely in the League's pocket and no more technically advanced than Frontier Fleet, militarily.

The status of the Judean League is mentioned in one of the infodumps. Pearls of Weber: Judaism in the Honorverse. http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/288/1

runsforcelery wrote:

<snip>

.... in regard to your question about the Judean League. I'm afraid it is part of the Solarian League, but its sympathies are definitely not with the "Mandarins," as Kolokoltsov and his buddies have been christened by the Solarian newsies. I haven't entirely decided how the JL will play out in the League's internal dynamics as the situation with the Star Empire goes further and further into the crapper, but I think you can take it for granted that Kolokoltsov won't like whatever it ends up doing.

Of course, he posted that in back in 2011, I may have missed some newer mention of the Judean League.

Hi Don,

From their MoH conversation, E&E know the MAlign has false fronts who will be bitterly opposed to genetic slavery.

Given nanotech assassins, the GA will insist treecats be present with all strangers, and said treecats have been very discrete in alerting the humans what the stranger is thinking, so the RF leaders will have to risk it when their announce themselves.

The patient long game would be more MAlign like, but my impression of the clone sons is that they're even more impatient than their father, and will make even greater egregious mistakes.

From their bios the RF leaders have been groomed to be opposed to genetic slavery in word and deed, yet can they hide their thoughts from treecats?

I look forward to O'Hanrahan's interview with Mike, to see how alpha lines deal with treecats; though Mike should have had her more permanent treecat guardian delivered by Tourville, along with Medusa's since Samantha has met both.

The db sent to Manticore through the Visigoth termini ought to get there in less than 176 hours [7&1/3 days] so it could return in less than 15.

His Celeryness may have something special for Mike's treecat, a real cowboy who likes Maine coon cats and cigars.

Brigade XO is quite correct the SLN will discover some of their worst nightmares in Silesia, since SoS mentioned Sarnow had 12 times as many warships in the SEM's ~49% of Silesia while the TC had close to 18 times the volume [SoS chapter 11, 4th page -page 149 in the HB].

If Kumalo had only 25 warships [I think it was more like 3 dozen, but that's my minimum], that'd be 300, or more than 20% of the RMN's strength in the critical summer of 1920, an incredible burden to the RMN at such a critical time, although RMN ship construction had easily exceeded this by April 1921 [HoS].

Silesia has some 65-69 star systems, so Sarnow might have been dealing with twice as many systems as Kumalo [in 4.5% of the volume], but averaging ~9 warships per star, before the 48 Kamerling's system control cruisers are added to the LAC's with their special bases mentioned in passing etc.

Of course the IAN may have an even higher density of warships, missile pods and LAC's in its 51% of Silesia.


I'm curious who thought of the merchant raiding plan; Kingsford, or did some MAlign agent [not Gwoen] suggest it to get the best FF ships out of the shell and the verge when the SL needs them there more than ever, and the mission is almost certain suicide.

I have lots of questions for UC to answer.

L

n7axw wrote:I doubt that the RF's intentions and it's ties with the Alignment will be evident when they publicaly declare their star nation. That will take time to come out; in all likelihood a quite a bit of it...

Don

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

From their MoH conversation, E&E know the MAlign has false fronts who will be bitterly opposed to genetic slavery.

Given nanotech assassins, the GA will insist treecats be present with all strangers, and said treecats have been very discrete in alerting the humans what the stranger is thinking, so the RF leaders will have to risk it when their announce themselves.

The patient long game would be more MAlign like, but my impression of the clone sons is that they're even more impatient than their father, and will make even greater egregious mistakes.

From their bios the RF leaders have been groomed to be opposed to genetic slavery in word and deed, yet can they hide their thoughts from treecats?

I look forward to O'Hanrahan's interview with Mike, to see how alpha lines deal with treecats; though Mike should have had her more permanent treecat guardian delivered by Tourville, along with Medusa's since Samantha has met both.

The db sent to Manticore through the Visigoth termini ought to get there in less than 176 hours [7&1/3 days] so it could return in less than 15.

His Celeryness may have something special for Mike's treecat, a real cowboy who likes Maine coon cats and cigars.

Brigade XO is quite correct the SLN will discover some of their worst nightmares in Silesia, since SoS mentioned Sarnow had 12 times as many warships in the SEM's ~49% of Silesia while the TC had close to 18 times the volume [SoS chapter 11, 4th page -page 149 in the HB].

If Kumalo had only 25 warships [I think it was more like 3 dozen, but that's my minimum], that'd be 300, or more than 20% of the RMN's strength in the critical summer of 1920, an incredible burden to the RMN at such a critical time, although RMN ship construction had easily exceeded this by April 1921 [HoS].

Silesia has some 65-69 star systems, so Sarnow might have been dealing with twice as many systems as Kumalo [in 4.5% of the volume], but averaging ~9 warships per star, before the 48 Kamerling's system control cruisers are added to the LAC's with their special bases mentioned in passing etc.

Of course the IAN may have an even higher density of warships, missile pods and LAC's in its 51% of Silesia.


I'm curious who thought of the merchant raiding plan; Kingsford, or did some MAlign agent [not Gwoen] suggest it to get the best FF ships out of the shell and the verge when the SL needs them there more than ever, and the mission is almost certain suicide.

I have lots of questions for UC to answer.

L

n7axw wrote:I doubt that the RF's intentions and it's ties with the Alignment will be evident when they publicaly declare their star nation. That will take time to come out; in all likelihood a quite a bit of it...

Don

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Good to see your post, Lyonheart. It does inspire one comment. I suspect that they would pass the treecat truth test with flying colors on the subject of genetic slavery. Textev suggests that a quite a few individuals in the outer layers of the onion find both Manpower and genetic slavery repulsive. The subject of human improvement through genetic manipulation would be an entirely different matter, however, and could evoke a different response...

Don

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I was under the impression that some members considered the genetic slaves distant blood relations. Slaves are the testing ground for new gene mods after all. Similarly Darius is taught that Manpower is a perversion of the True Vision of Awesomeness, IIRC. If I'm right, the Malign hates basically everyone allied with Manpower or Mesa.

Now, if I had to guess, Manticore is going to look the Malign in groups that were coordinating with Mesa/Manpower or were infiltrated by Manpower/Mesa. Manticore is gonna find a lot of those groups to burn down. Its a real bad time to be a Mesa patsy.

I can now post an interesting comparison my niece made some time back.

"Uncle, if what is done to Beowulf is done by the League, wouldn't Beowulf be just like some member of the mafia, gang or cutthroat band of criminals who think they can just up and walk away someday without there being repercussions just around the corner?"

I never thought of it that way. Yes it would be.

cthia wrote:I can now post an interesting comparison my niece made some time back.

"Uncle, if what is done to Beowulf is done by the League, wouldn't Beowulf be just like some member of the mafia, gang or cutthroat band of criminals who think they can just up and walk away someday without there being repercussions just around the corner?"

I never thought of it that way. Yes it would be.

Indeed it would be like Beowulf was a member of the Mafia. Should have considered that before it started this whole thing! Sol was doing just fine without a bunch of dirtsiders screwing stuff up.

Also the fact that it didn't quit the League before helping the enemy thing is kind of blatant treason.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:I can now post an interesting comparison my niece made some time back.

"Uncle, if what is done to Beowulf is done by the League, wouldn't Beowulf be just like some member of the mafia, gang or cutthroat band of criminals who think they can just up and walk away someday without there being repercussions just around the corner?"

I never thought of it that way. Yes it would be.

Indeed it would be like Beowulf was a member of the Mafia. Should have considered that before it started this whole thing! Sol was doing just fine without a bunch of dirtsiders screwing stuff up.

I disagree. When the League was created it had noble goals. Officially it still has. Over the centuries there have been a lot of little changes and the guarantees mean less and less.

But Beowulf has kept the faith. It has its own form of democracy, etc. There is freedom.

Yes, they stopped a fleet from joining Filareta. That prevented even more deaths. It would have been an easy thing to destroy the ships as they came through the junction. If they came through in single file, they could simply have been asked to surrender and then shot apart. If they came together, we know from textev that if 17 came through at once, the junction would not have allowed traffic for hours.

It took minutes to destroy over 400 ships under Filareta. How long would it have taken to destroy this other fleet?

Keep in mind that the constitution allows planets to leave. According to the rules, they should be able to leave. If they are attacked, that is an act of war.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:I can now post an interesting comparison my niece made some time back.

"Uncle, if what is done to Beowulf is done by the League, wouldn't Beowulf be just like some member of the mafia, gang or cutthroat band of criminals who think they can just up and walk away someday without there being repercussions just around the corner?"

I never thought of it that way. Yes it would be.

Indeed it would be like Beowulf was a member of the Mafia. Should have considered that before it started this whole thing! Sol was doing just fine without a bunch of dirtsiders screwing stuff up.

Also the fact that it didn't quit the League before helping the enemy thing is kind of blatant treason.

I brought that up before. Certainly it is how the League views it.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:I can now post an interesting comparison my niece made some time back.

"Uncle, if what is done to Beowulf is done by the League, wouldn't Beowulf be just like some member of the mafia, gang or cutthroat band of criminals who think they can just up and walk away someday without there being repercussions just around the corner?"

I never thought of it that way. Yes it would be.

ldwechsler wrote:Indeed it would be like Beowulf was a member of the Mafia. Should have considered that before it started this whole thing! Sol was doing just fine without a bunch of dirtsiders screwing stuff up.

quite possibly a cat wrote:I disagree. When the League was created it had noble goals. Officially it still has. Over the centuries there have been a lot of little changes and the guarantees mean less and less.

But Beowulf has kept the faith. It has its own form of democracy, etc. There is freedom.

Yes, they stopped a fleet from joining Filareta. That prevented even more deaths. It would have been an easy thing to destroy the ships as they came through the junction. If they came through in single file, they could simply have been asked to surrender and then shot apart. If they came together, we know from textev that if 17 came through at once, the junction would not have allowed traffic for hours.

It took minutes to destroy over 400 ships under Filareta. How long would it have taken to destroy this other fleet?

Keep in mind that the constitution allows planets to leave. According to the rules, they should be able to leave. If they are attacked, that is an act of war.

None of that would matter in the mind of the mafia. It would only matter that Beowulf was in the gang.

Maybe the gang started out helping little old ladies across the street. Then they decided to kill little old ladies and take their purses one night you weren't there. They're still not going to just let you walk out. Especially when you can bring the whole gang down with your leaving.