Remaining holes in SLN intel

quite possibly a cat wrote:Who is the Orglan empire?

That's the question.

kzt wrote:

quite possibly a cat wrote:Who is the Orglan empire?

That's the question.

According to Google, it's an AirBNB in Ireland. Although calling it an "empire" is a bit much.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

phillies wrote:Another player on the board? Not seeing this does not make him worse than RMN intelligence, which should reasonably have concluded before the gang of two returned with their guest that It wasn't the SLN, it was not Haven, and therefore one of the alternatives was the Orglon Empire starting to nibble on humans.

Who is the Orglan empire?

As featured in another Weber novel.

phillies wrote:Another player on the board? Not seeing this does not make him worse than RMN intelligence, which should reasonably have concluded before the gang of two returned with their guest that It wasn't the SLN, it was not Haven, and therefore one of the alternatives was the Orglon Empire starting to nibble on humans.

Back to Phillies main comment, The fact that the SLN:
a) knows that Oyster Bay occurred
b) Knows it destroyed the Manty and Grayson Heavy industry and main naval nodes
c) Knows that The SLN didn't do it.
d) Knows that Manticore doesn't blame Haven or the IAN for it.
e) Knows the levels of defenses and sensor system in Manticore (even if they only equated them in 1900 levels originally).

and now

f) Knows the massive technology advantages that the RMN have over the universal standard. (even if their knowledge is still.... low, let's say)
g) Know the remaining defenses of Manticore.
h) Knows Manticore calls the attackers "invisible"

Yet the SLN leadership isn't even looking into it... or concerned about it, is criminal, to say the least.

munroburton"[quote="cthia wrote:Thanks. I suppose Kingsford himself was simply being modest...

ART Ch. 31 wrote:“Please, sit down, Fleet Admiral,” he said, and watched Kingsford seat himself. Once the naval officer had settled, Kolokoltsov sat back down himself and cocked his head. “I understand you’re Admiral Rajampet’s proper successor?”
“I was next in seniority, and that makes me the acting CNO, Sir,” Kingsford replied. “Filling the post on a permanent basis is a bit more complicated.

Bold and underline, mine.

Which is the formality, I suppose, brought up.

There are two kinds of seniority. The first is 'time in grade', where the 4 star Admiral who has been one for 10 years is senior to the 4 star Admiral who has been one for 5 years.

The second is seniority due to appointed position. For example, in the RMN, if Caparelli had a heart attack - Patricia Givens becomes the acting First Space Lord, despite "only" being a Vice Admiral, until such time as a formal replacement is confirmed.[/quote]


No, on the Space Lords. Givens has specific duties as Second Lord. There's probably a Deputy First Space Lord we haven't seen yet. But most likely it's CO Home Fleet. A better example of seniority by position is Michelle Henke and Augustus Khumalo who are both senior to Tourville but Tourville out ranks them by time in grade.

saber964 wrote:

No, on the Space Lords. Givens has specific duties as Second Lord. There's probably a Deputy First Space Lord we haven't seen yet. But most likely it's CO Home Fleet. A better example of seniority by position is Michelle Henke and Augustus Khumalo who are both senior to Tourville but Tourville out ranks them by time in grade.

Best to think of the differences as "Rank" and "Position" roles.

Such as "my rank is Lt. Commander, I am Captain of the Destroyer Blah..Blah."; where Captain is the positional job role.

Another, more senior Lt. Commander assigned to be, say... engineer, on the same destroyer would not become the leader on the destroyer despite his greater time in service, because the other Lt. Cmdr was assigned the position of "Captain." If the captain were to be incapacitated, the Engineer would still have to wait for command, as the XO (probably a full lieutenant) would take over, again, due to position.

Position is the more important of the two. However, when Positions are equal, rank and time in rank take back over.

Forex, when Terekhov called together Kumalo's southern patrol for his assault on Monica, if one of the other CAs had had a more senior captain, that captain would have led the squadron, or ruled on Terekhov's idea. (of course, Terekhov knew he was the most senior independent commander in the Talbot quadrant, so he was safe in that regard...)

Theemile wrote:

phillies wrote:Another player on the board? Not seeing this does not make him worse than RMN intelligence, which should reasonably have concluded before the gang of two returned with their guest that It wasn't the SLN, it was not Haven, and therefore one of the alternatives was the Orglon Empire starting to nibble on humans.

Back to Phillies main comment, The fact that the SLN:
a) knows that Oyster Bay occurred
b) Knows it destroyed the Manty and Grayson Heavy industry and main naval nodes
c) Knows that The SLN didn't do it.
d) Knows that Manticore doesn't blame Haven or the IAN for it.
e) Knows the levels of defenses and sensor system in Manticore (even if they only equated them in 1900 levels originally).

and now

f) Knows the massive technology advantages that the RMN have over the universal standard. (even if their knowledge is still.... low, let's say)
g) Know the remaining defenses of Manticore.
h) Knows Manticore calls the attackers "invisible"

Yet the SLN leadership isn't even looking into it... or concerned about it, is criminal, to say the least.

Amen can he get an Amen Amen

saber964 wrote:No, on the Space Lords. Givens has specific duties as Second Lord. There's probably a Deputy First Space Lord we haven't seen yet. But most likely it's CO Home Fleet. A better example of seniority by position is Michelle Henke and Augustus Khumalo who are both senior to Tourville but Tourville out ranks them by time in grade.

From AoV:

Not only was she, as head of the Office of Naval Intelligence, the officer specifically charged with providing the data Caparelli needed, she was also Second Space Lord. In the event that anything happened to him, it would be her job to make decisions until the civilians got around to appointing a new First Space Lord, and it was a job she hoped passionately to avoid. Permanently.

Nobody in the League has anything like the number of ships still remaining in active service to the SLN.
Beowelf has 36 SDs plus a fair amound of smaller ships (no, I don't recall how many) but I don't believe any SL member has more. None of the RF systems seem to have any SDs and while we have seen that Mannerheim has a credable fleet, it seems that it's largest ships are BCs. No mention of the sizes of any of the others (again, that I can recall)
You have Erwhon- who DOES have SDs, at least older Manticorian designs and Maya is now getting modern shops built with Manticore Lite tech via Erwhon but Maya and Erwhon are primarily looking to keep the SLN away from doing anything stupid with them because the SLN is about to be way too busy to deal with Erwhon- who isn't "rebelling" or anything like that. Maya is going to stay below the radar until forced to defend themselves against the SLN or refuse to "release" any of it's nominaly assigned FF ships (which are way better than anyting FF or BF has on a per-ship basis) and is also counting on SNL being too busy to do anything substantive.

Loren Pechtel wrote:..snip..

cthia wrote:There is a hOle that is so glaring that no one has bothered to mention it. The SL still hasn't come to terms with the fact that there is an invisible player at the high stakes poker game.

What I don't understand about the whole thing, is who do they think is responsible for the Yawata Strike? Haven didn't do it. The SLN knows that they didn't do it. So why is it so hard for them to fathom that there SIMPLY MUST BE some other player? Then, one has to wonder if they'd experience the same degree of anger at the realization of being used and cajoled as Haven and Manticore did?

Even Gweon can't hide that obvious fact.

They don't really care. The more immediate problem is to restore the impression of invincibility of battle fleet so the verge doesn't up and leave. Once that is done then they'll worry about who the hidden player is.

And suddenly I'm reminded of The Short Victorious War, the only question is who will be at the pointy end of the stick the SLN is going to wave around. The most likely candidate is Beowulf I guess.