Remaining holes in SLN intel

quite possibly a cat wrote:...What's the problem with not having taxes again? Not seeing the issue.

The way the SKM works is that only people who have paid more in taxes than they have received in government benefits get to vote. I remember vaguely that there is a five-year window on that but I am not certain. If there were no taxes then nobody could vote.

While a noble and interesting idea, the idea of tying the franchise to paying taxes would quickly self-destruct in practice.

saber964 wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:
You are right about politics. And, actually (and I hate to bring up politics here) the new Trump tax plan is targeted at about ninety percent of the population who would be able to do the taxes simply.

Of course, the rich have their own special breaks.

It would seem that it is not the case in Manticore. Terekhov is clearly wealthy but it takes almost no time.

IIRC Terekhov filled out his single page E-form in 15 minutes.

Seriously, in the modern era how difficult should it be?
What is your personal id.
Is the below personal data correct?
Fix data.
Scan wage receipt code from employers.
Scan deduction receipt codes.
Is the above correct? Sign.

Of course, the wages and deductions from major sources should be automatically reported. Most of your responses should be correct or not..

Self employed would be more difficult, but if you enter the data correct all along, the end should be easy.

Theemile wrote:Self employed would be more difficult, but if you enter the data correct all along, the end should be easy.

Must. Control. Hysterical. Laughter.

I am (very) modestly well-to-do. I have some consulting fees and contingent payments (some in cash, some as restricted stock) passed through an LLC. I have some investment income as well, most from securities and some from a rental property.

My tax return is typically about five hundred pages.

I also had to pay for a legal opinion from a tax attorney about the actual tax status of the restricted stock transfers.

quite possibly a cat wrote:
Even if Haven did know about Yawtwa in advance AND the outcome of Manticore in advance, going through with the attack still could have been viewed as the right call. When they made the attack might have been the optimal time to do as much damage to the Manty fleet at least cost. Remember, the end result of both strikes was a place where they could negotiate even terms!

Haven couldn't know about Oyster Bay before they staged Operation Beatrice, because Oyster Bay was activated only after Beatrice. In fact, Oyster Bay was originally intended only to be activated after the Lenny Detweiler SDs were available. And Haven should targeted, too.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:

quite possibly a cat wrote:...What's the problem with not having taxes again? Not seeing the issue.

The way the SKM works is that only people who have paid more in taxes than they have received in government benefits get to vote. I remember vaguely that there is a five-year window on that but I am not certain. If there were no taxes then nobody could vote.

While a noble and interesting idea, the idea of tying the franchise to paying taxes would quickly self-destruct in practice.

Yeah, I know. That's why I had a paragraph of evil suggestions next.

Not so sure it would self-destruct, but it has serious potential for abuse. The franchise has been restricted in all sorts of ways without leading to quick self-destruction.

Regardless in the Honorverse there are a wide variety of political systems showing both failure and success across the entire spectrum of democracy to autocracy.

Personally, I blame Treecats for Manticore's run of good rulers. They're secretly manipulating Manticore to benefit themselves by ensuring a successful Star Nation so it doesn't need to turn to measures like selling Treecats to fund itself!

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:

quite possibly a cat wrote:...What's the problem with not having taxes again? Not seeing the issue.

howing both failure and success across the entire spectrum of democracy to autocracy.

Personally, I blame Treecats for Manticore's run of good rulers. They're secretly manipulating Manticore to benefit themselves by ensuring a successful Star Nation so it doesn't need to turn to measures like selling Treecats to fund itself!

Yes, the right to vote has been limited at times based on the amount of money earned...not to mention other things.

The reason generally given is that those who do not pay should not make decisions. It creates major issues, of course. In 2012, one candidate in the US noted that over 40 percent of US citizens did not pay income taxes yet, of course, could vote on the amount OTHERS would pay.

The system Manticore has seems to work. I would guess there is an exception for government workers who do receive their income from government.

But why gripe at THAT? They also have an hereditary nobility that until recently was considered more important than all the rest of the people combined? To be Prime Minister, you had to control THAT group.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:

Theemile wrote:Self employed would be more difficult, but if you enter the data correct all along, the end should be easy.

Must. Control. Hysterical. Laughter.

I am (very) modestly well-to-do. I have some consulting fees and contingent payments (some in cash, some as restricted stock) passed through an LLC. I have some investment income as well, most from securities and some from a rental property.

My tax return is typically about five hundred pages.

I also had to pay for a legal opinion from a tax attorney about the actual tax status of the restricted stock transfers.

Let's face it, our tax system is antiquated. The government should have a better database of payments and deductions. There shouldn't be the need of opinions, everything should fall into one category or another. The system is made to make the tax prep system money.

My wife (a tax consultant) would laugh at me too, as both if our independent consultant jobs rack up well over 100 pages each year; but a fresh tax code, with a modern database, would simplify taxes greatly and greatly simplify the paperwork at the end.

Bluesqueak wrote:

Michael Everett wrote: quote="Bluesqueak" And that's the Solly Elephant In the Room that the Mesan Alignment is playing like a violin. /quote
...the mental image of that mixed metaphor is quite... disconcerting.

I should probably have said 'playing like a bass'. But then, I don't so much mix metaphors as wrestle them to the ground and knock them for six.

Mixing metaphors like that is not cricket.

Theemile wrote:

drinksmuchcoffee wrote: quote="Theemile"
Self employed would be more difficult, but if you enter the data correct all along, the end should be easy. /quote

Must. Control. Hysterical. Laughter.

I am (very) modestly well-to-do. I have some consulting fees and contingent payments (some in cash, some as restricted stock) passed through an LLC. I have some investment income as well, most from securities and some from a rental property.

My tax return is typically about five hundred pages.

I also had to pay for a legal opinion from a tax attorney about the actual tax status of the restricted stock transfers.

Let's face it, our tax system is antiquated. The government should have a better database of payments and deductions. There shouldn't be the need of opinions, everything should fall into one category or another. The system is made to make the tax prep system money.

My wife (a tax consultant) would laugh at me too, as both if our independent consultant jobs rack up well over 100 pages each year; but a fresh tax code, with a modern database, would simplify taxes greatly and greatly simplify the paperwork at the end.

I am continuously amazed at the number of people in the U.S. that don't pay taxes. I don't have the income sources that Threemile has, being limited to earnings, pensions, and interest so my tax return is a relatively simple 4 pages long (or would be if I printed it and sent it in). I use a computer tax package, download my information from the government which received the information from my income sources, review it, and e-file it. Takes between 5 and 10 minutes. Less than a week later, the money is in my bank account.

As for "If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't get a say in how they are spent" sorry but I don't believe that, more like, if you want to make decisions on how I live my life, I get to say in those decisions, or at in least who gets to make them. It has been a long time since the days of White, Landowner, Male only voters. Let's keep it that way. I do believe that you need to make a commitment to the country you are voting in, such as being a citizen. And if you are a citizen, and chose to live elsewhere, then you shouldn't get to vote. This is probably in the wrong forum, never mind the wrong thread. Sorry about that.

Very few people in America don't pay taxes. Income Tax one of the many taxes around. Almost everyone pays some form of payroll tax if they work and sales tax if they buy stuff. Furthermore actual incidence of taxes is different than who nominally pays the tax. For instance while a landlord would pay the property tax, the costs from property tax would be mostly or entirely passed on to his tenants.

Although, its hardly a major problem with Manticore's system of government. Hell, they can suspend elections simply by being at "war". In this case a political party would be able to readily abuse that part by simply declaring war on the group behind the Yawtwa strike (Mesa if an official nation is required) and never hold elections again!

Furthermore the culture of dueling is also ripe for exploitation. In particular, if you get challenged to a duel it is considered cowardice to refuse even when your opponent has cybernetic and genetic enhancements that you lack. As far as I was able to tell its not even a requirement to inform your opponent of their existence! A few cybermods and you can eliminate anyone who dislike from the Lords the same way Honor did!