Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:That’s the average - but for most things with missiles in space average distance per drive is more misleading than otherwise. The second drive benefits from all the velocity the first drive built up. So a second identical drive more than triples the range.
For example a 3 drive Mk23 the 3 drives are (@ half power):
1st - ~7 million km
2nd - ~29 million km
3rd - ~66 million km

"Status change!"

Well that changes the cost of the peanuts in the stadium. Now I'm really struggling with Barricade! Misery loves company?

Thanks for the accurate data.

And that assumes you’re staying on the same vector (more or less). If you have to seriously chang3 direction the. Lots of annoying vector math comes into play as you have to spend time canceling out the now unwanted initial vector.

Sorry for sharing the headache

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:That’s the average - but for most things with missiles in space average distance per drive is more misleading than otherwise. The second drive benefits from all the velocity the first drive built up. So a second identical drive more than triples the range.
For example a 3 drive Mk23 the 3 drives are (@ half power):
1st - ~7 million km
2nd - ~29 million km
3rd - ~66 million km

"Status change!"

Well that changes the cost of the peanuts in the stadium. Now I'm really struggling with Barricade! Misery loves company?

Thanks for the accurate data.

Jonathan_S wrote:And that assumes you’re staying on the same vector (more or less). If you have to seriously chang3 direction the. Lots of annoying vector math comes into play as you have to spend time canceling out the now unwanted initial vector.

Sorry for sharing the headache

Apology not needed. The effort is much appreciated. Lotsa aspirin has always been needed for some threads. I seem to be in need of a refill. LOL

This is what happens when you're too lazy to do the math.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:Would someone be so kind as to tell me the maximum range of the Mk23, w/o ballistic segment? And the number of drives. (4?) So's I won't, like the SLN, step on my own chestnuts roasting in the open fire. Thanks in advance.

I think Honor fired from about 72M kilometers with.

Oops, belay that request Number One. Picard out.

All shipborn mdms are 3 drives or less. Only pod based system defense have 4 or more stages currently.

D(max)=V(ship)*T + V(launcher)*T + 1/2*A(missile)*T^2

where T=540sec (3x180 sec), A(missile) is 46,000g
V(ship)=0 and V(launcher) is 50,000m/s and g=10m/s

D(Max)=67,149,000 Km

So depending on ship velocity, 72 Million KM is easily doable.

Honor also fired at around 150M kilometers, iinm.

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:That’s the average - but for most things with missiles in space average distance per drive is more misleading than otherwise. The second drive benefits from all the velocity the first drive built up. So a second identical drive more than triples the range.
For example a 3 drive Mk23 the 3 drives are (@ half power):
1st - ~7 million km
2nd - ~29 million km
3rd - ~66 million km

"Status change!"

Well that changes the cost of the peanuts in the stadium. Now I'm really struggling with Barricade! Misery loves company?

Thanks for the accurate data.

Jonathan_S wrote:And that assumes you’re staying on the same vector (more or less). If you have to seriously chang3 direction the. Lots of annoying vector math comes into play as you have to spend time canceling out the now unwanted initial vector.

Sorry for sharing the headache

Referencing this post along with this work of art seems interesting and quite promising Jonathan, along with the burn times given on the profiles of Barricade's missiles. I remember burn times given. Not sure if they were also given for the Cats., as well. I'm not "at my desk" at the mo.

This Barricade thing is still puzzling me, more so now.

.

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
All shipborn mdms are 3 drives or less. Only pod based system defense have 4 or more stages currently.

D(max)=V(ship)*T + V(launcher)*T + 1/2*A(missile)*T^2

where T=540sec (3x180 sec), A(missile) is 46,000g
V(ship)=0 and V(launcher) is 50,000m/s and g=10m/s

D(Max)=67,149,000 Km

So depending on ship velocity, 72 Million KM is easily doable.

Honor also fired at around 150M kilometers, iinm.

That was her demonstration launch of 64 missiles in AAC against Tourville. It was an Apollo launch, with massive ballistic segments, using system repeater Hermes Buoys. It was a 1 time launch which realy cannot be repeated, nor could she actually attack with larger salvos given the lashup.

Normally, Apollo range ends ~100 MKM or so - we have never been told a from number, only it is more than 90 MKM (a distance Mike was simulating in SFTS) and significantly less than the 150 MKM of the Tourville launch.

Theemile wrote:Normally, Apollo range ends ~100 MKM or so - we have never been told a from number, only it is more than 90 MKM (a distance Mike was simulating in SFTS) and significantly less than the 150 MKM of the Tourville launch.

Correction. Mike's simulated launch was 81 million km.

Storm from the Shadows wrote:the follow-on salvo opened its eyes, looked ahead, and saw its targets, still two and a quarter million kilometers in front of it. They were 4.4 light-minutes from Artemis . . . but their targeting orders were less than sixty seconds old

4.4 light-minutes = 79,150,000 km, but they were still 2.25 million km from target. So total range was 81.4 million km range.

(Still in a simulation that assumed FTL control tech had been improved / miniaturized enough to be carried by BC(P)s I'm not sure they didn't adjust the assumed control range as well - so I don't fully rely on that range.

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
All shipborn mdms are 3 drives or less. Only pod based system defense have 4 or more stages currently.

D(max)=V(ship)*T + V(launcher)*T + 1/2*A(missile)*T^2

where T=540sec (3x180 sec), A(missile) is 46,000g
V(ship)=0 and V(launcher) is 50,000m/s and g=10m/s

D(Max)=67,149,000 Km

So depending on ship velocity, 72 Million KM is easily doable.

Honor also fired at around 150M kilometers, iinm.

Theemile wrote:That was her demonstration launch of 64 missiles in AAC against Tourville. It was an Apollo launch, with massive ballistic segments, using system repeater Hermes Buoys. It was a 1 time launch which realy cannot be repeated, nor could she actually attack with larger salvos given the lashup.

Normally, Apollo range ends ~100 MKM or so - we have never been told a from number, only it is more than 90 MKM (a distance Mike was simulating in SFTS) and significantly less than the 150 MKM of the Tourville launch.

Why was it a one time launch? It can be repeated at any time in the Home System, right? The Home System will always have Hermes. Or any other system given Hermes.

BTW, wasn't there mention in SoV, by Hamish, to offer Hermes to other systems? The offer was used a carrot. Which I find shocking.

At what range does a ballistic launch by the RMN become equal to Pre-FTL missile control? I'm certain that Honor's 150M klick launch out of the RZ = Pre FTL.

Pre-FTL = the good ole' days between the Hatfield and the McCoys err the Peeps and the 'Corns.

Of course Apollo, with its advantages in ECM would still greatly outperform Solarian hardware.

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:Honor also fired at around 150M kilometers, iinm.

Theemile wrote:That was her demonstration launch of 64 missiles in AAC against Tourville. It was an Apollo launch, with massive ballistic segments, using system repeater Hermes Buoys. It was a 1 time launch which realy cannot be repeated, nor could she actually attack with larger salvos given the lashup.

Normally, Apollo range ends ~100 MKM or so - we have never been told a from number, only it is more than 90 MKM (a distance Mike was simulating in SFTS) and significantly less than the 150 MKM of the Tourville launch.

Why was it a one time launch? It can be repeated at any time in the Home System, right? The Home System will always have Hermes. Or any other system given Hermes.

BTW, wasn't there mention in SoV, by Hamish, to offer Hermes to other systems? The offer was used a carrot. Which I find shocking.

That is Mycroft - the new generation system defensive network. It's Apollo married with the Havenite Mycroft system on Steriods, Speed, Coke, and Jet awake pills all rolled up into one.

Where we are at currently in the storyline, October 1922pd, Mycroft is still being deployed in the first few systems, so it, and it's capabilities have not been seen, and are still theorized. Most importantly, required hundreds, if not thousands of sensor drones and repeater stations to control the Apollo missiles, and it definitely is not a shipborne system.

What Honor did with her fleet couldn't be replicated under other conditions. Only in Manticore space in 1921 pd was she able to find the emplaced buoys to control just 64 missiles out to 150MKM. It's not like she could take it with her to another system, so it is not indicative of what Apollo can do. (If she was in Apollo range, she could have controlled 100x that salvo size from 1 ship alone)

So me saying this is a 1 time shot, was like a sniper sitting in a perfect sniper nest; up high over the target, no obstructions, no one shooting at him, a nice steady breeze in the right direction, perfect temps, visible wind markers, a still target, and plenty of time to take his shot. It's one of those situations where everything has to work the just right way, and you cannot expect to enjoy again.

cthia wrote:

cthia wrote:Honor also fired at around 150M kilometers, iinm.

Theemile wrote:That was her demonstration launch of 64 missiles in AAC against Tourville. It was an Apollo launch, with massive ballistic segments, using system repeater Hermes Buoys. It was a 1 time launch which realy cannot be repeated, nor could she actually attack with larger salvos given the lashup.

Normally, Apollo range ends ~100 MKM or so - we have never been told a from number, only it is more than 90 MKM (a distance Mike was simulating in SFTS) and significantly less than the 150 MKM of the Tourville launch.

Why was it a one time launch? It can be repeated at any time in the Home System, right? The Home System will always have Hermes. Or any other system given Hermes.

BTW, wasn't there mention in SoV, by Hamish, to offer Hermes to other systems? The offer was used a carrot. Which I find shocking.

Theemile wrote:That is Mycroft - the new generation system defensive network. It's Apollo married with the Havenite Mycroft system on Steriods, Speed, Coke, and Jet awake pills all rolled up into one.

Where we are at currently in the storyline, October 1922pd, Mycroft is still being deployed in the first few systems, so it, and it's capabilities have not been seen, and are still theorized. Most importantly, required hundreds, if not thousands of sensor drones and repeater stations to control the Apollo missiles, and it definitely is not a shipborne system.

What Honor did with her fleet couldn't be replicated under other conditions. Only in Manticore space in 1921 pd was she able to find the emplaced buoys to control just 64 missiles out to 150MKM. It's not like she could take it with her to another system, so it is not indicative of what Apollo can do. (If she was in Apollo range, she could have controlled 100x that salvo size from 1 ship alone)

So me saying this is a 1 time shot, was like a sniper sitting in a perfect sniper nest; up high over the target, no obstructions, no one shooting at him, a nice steady breeze in the right direction, perfect temps, visible wind markers, a still target, and plenty of time to take his shot. It's one of those situations where everything has to work the just right way, and you cannot expect to enjoy again.

Thanks for the clear explanation.

Doh! That's right, it was Mycroft. My memory ain't what it "used to be" before it was "used as can be." I think. I'm not sure. I totally can't remember. LOL

But isn't it risky letting go of Mycroft as was suggested to Hamish, who I can't believe suggested such a thing? I recall feeling that such a thought seemed totally uncharacteristic of Hamish.