PeterZ wrote:fallsfromtrees wrote:The problem with rejecting steam is that it really can be argued that it lies within the prescriptions of muscle, wind and water. Steam power is just the use if water to produce wind where required, and it's usefulness is such that that argument will carry a lot of weight among all of the people. There fore rejecting it takes the chance that people will instead reject the COGA, and instead move to the Sox, which has approved it's use. Rejecting on doctrinal rounds could mean having to restart the Jihad, somewhat the Duchairn really doesn't want to do.
Steam is here to say, and will spread to much of the world - escaping North Marching and Desnair.
Agreed. That failure to adopt steam will make North Harchong subject to revolt from the South. Just occurred to me. A revolution regarding freeing people from bondage where the South wants to free people and they win! Yup, that's coming for Harchong.
Desnair's official rejection of steam will cause their factions to vie for power. Those factions which gain Charisian or Dohlaran support will gain strength and likely win. I see a nasty proxy war there.
Actually, when steam power is introduced in HFAF, Paityr and Housemyn have a conversation about it in which Paityr informs him that within established precedent, steam power goes up against the limitations established by Jwo-Jeng. In his current state of mind, he would gladly approve it but he still needed a plausible excuse to use. As such, he employed the sort of "logic chopping" arguments he once criticized when other inquisitors had used them and gave us the already authorized steam cooking, wind generating excuse. The problem is that even the COGA under Duchairn might have a problem with this "creative" or "inventive" excuse. Moreover, once Clyntahn got wind of the concept of steam power, he was very interested in it. However, if Clyntahn authorized the exploration of this technology as a war expedient, it might cause many in the current reincarnation of the Church to repudiate his decision on the grounds that the Grand Inquisitor exceeded his authority under the Proscriptions. Of course, a failure to attest the use of steam power and to permit its use throughout the lands still loyal to the COGA would become a practical problem. It outs them in a constant state of technological inferiority vis-a-vis Charis and Siddarmark, both militarily and economically.
So even if Duchairn manages to somehow alleviate the security concerns of realms such as Desnair, Dohlar, the border states, South Harchong or Harchong proper, such as through various international agreements with Charis and Siddarmark, it still leaves the stupendous industrial output of Charis and Siddarmark and the former's monopoly over the maritime carrying trade. There is no way for Duchairn to buy or coerce the compliance of loyalist realms if those are facing economic ruin as a result. Nor can he curtail or embargo Charisian trade with the mainland without risking another repeat of what happened after Darcos Sound (the economic consequences of which he remembers all to well and had warn of). To put it simply, for Duchairn to try and "quarantine" Charisian innovation in general and steam power in particular, he would basically be asking the remaining loyalist realms to cut their own throats both economically and militarily.
Given the Inner Circle's access to Old Terra's history, they have to know that one of the lingering problems we have, even today, is the different rate of technological development, economic success and social evolution around this planet. The "Global South" always seems poorer relative to the "Global North". Many Western countries have reached their current level of success thanks to social and political reforms that happened centuries ago. What made Safehold so stable for so long was that there were no "unknown lands" to which "intrepid voyagers" could go and any permissible technological innovation was limited by the limitations of communications in pre-Merlin Safehold, the Church's own restrictions and by the absence of patents that secured intellectual property (thus facilitating the dissemination of said discoveries and inventions). As such, the sort of "uneven" development was very limited (mostly to social reforms like the abolition of slavery and serfdom in Charis). But now the Church no longer has control over the most powerful and wealthiest realms, which will continue to develop and evolve and innovate, something none of the other realms can truly afford to ignore. Cayleb and Sharleyan might seem honorable and decent enough but any ruler worth his crown always has to worry about what happens when they're gone and whether they can afford to lag behind Charis and find themselves completely outclassed at some future date.
We can also assume that Charis and Siddarmark will be smart about this given Merlin's influence. They will first offer their services in some sort of peacemaking or mediating capacity between any factions, thus getting their foot through the door that way. If that fails, they could position themselves as peacekeepers by put some sort of ready force in place between any warring factions in a civil war. Yet there's always the possibility that ties with Charis or reformists in general are the crux of the conflict. As such, any Charisian involvement in such a proxy war might be a bad thing. In reality though, one of the big issues that the Safehold series dealt with from the get-go was slavery and serfdom. The idea of owning a person was a vestige of the feudal system and one that took a long while to eradicate in our own history. But its also something that Charis sought to eliminate from the state and one of the key problems RFC has stated that the Clyntahn had with Charis. The absence of serfdom or slavery denies the Church one of its main tools for suppressing free thought and for controlling the rulers of any realm. This means that Charis will do whatever it can to end slavery and serfdom and its best tool is economics. But eliminating the need for labor intensive industries will make life very difficult for any slave owning realms, as they won't be able to complete with cheaper Charisian products.