Sprint drive

Jonathan_S wrote:Hmm, as a whim I also looked at sprint - sprint - ballistic - sprint. That's a crazy capable missile.
Sure burnout is just 225s and 32,248,125km; but terminal velocity is 0.95c.

Add 208.1s of ballistic coast and you still reach 72 million km in just 433.1s; over 2 minutes (145.6 seconds) faster than a normal Mk23 and with 110% the terminal velocity! And it should be shorter flight time to any range


If Manticore can build it then all hail the new MSDM (multi-sprint drive missile)!

Hmm, that suggests either we will see the CM drives fitted to standard missiles, or the technology improvements applied to allow the endurance for the CM drive can also be applied to a standard missile drive, boosting their endurance still further.

I'd expect to see further improvement in powered endurance of standard missile drives, but RFC does like his little surprises.

WLBjork wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Hmm, as a whim I also looked at sprint - sprint - ballistic - sprint. That's a crazy capable missile.
Sure burnout is just 225s and 32,248,125km; but terminal velocity is 0.95c.

Add 208.1s of ballistic coast and you still reach 72 million km in just 433.1s; over 2 minutes (145.6 seconds) faster than a normal Mk23 and with 110% the terminal velocity! And it should be shorter flight time to any range


If Manticore can build it then all hail the new MSDM (multi-sprint drive missile)!

Hmm, that suggests either we will see the CM drives fitted to standard missiles, or the technology improvements applied to allow the endurance for the CM drive can also be applied to a standard missile drive, boosting their endurance still further.

I'd expect to see further improvement in powered endurance of standard missile drives, but RFC does like his little surprises.

Even before looking at the CM derived Sprint drive I've been surprised that we haven't seen the enhanced node endurance of the ERM/LERM missiles combined with the multi-drive tech of the DDMs/MDMs. Even a 25% increase in drive endurance would stretch a Mk16 from 30 million km to 45 million. (The equivalent of bumping a 60 second full power drive up to 75 seconds)

But for some reason the current MDMs are no faster nor any longer ranged than the original ones from Buttercup. (Oddly some of the later capacitor powered ones Manticore had were a bit quicker, but the Mk23 slowed down to 46k/92k gees again)


I get that until Apollo came around Manticore didn't need more powered range on their MDMs. But the DDMs could use it, and even MDMs would benefit from the increased flexibility allowed by better drive endurance. And of course higher acceleration lets you land your hits before the enemy does, potentially orphaning more of their follow-on salvos.

Yup, this is what counts. The acceleration of the drive only matters for how fast it can change course. For surviving the defenses you simply want speed, how you got it doesn't really matter.

Jonathan_S wrote:But I don’t think ECM time is a consideration. A normal engagement ranges a DDM would actually cross the point defense envelope in less time that a Cataphract with a sprint drive 2nd stage. The sprint drive has higher acceleration but only last 41% as long so total velocity added is 11% lower (98,000 gees for 75 seconds = 0.245c vs 46,000 gees for 180 seconds = 0.276c).

kzt wrote:You cannot change the acceleration of a running missile drive. You can only shut it off before it burns out. To change acceleration you need to activate a second drive.

You can effectively decrease a missiles acceleration down from its maximum under powered flight by adding a spiral into its flight path. You can even get acceleration to go negative by straight up reversing it.

Jonathan_S wrote:Hmm, as a whim I also looked at sprint - sprint - ballistic - sprint. That's a crazy capable missile.
Sure burnout is just 225s and 32,248,125km; but terminal velocity is 0.95c.

The problem with a ballistic phase is it has no ability to maneuver and basically no protection. It can get fried by a nearby nuke, or dusted by enemy missiles buzzing it with their wedge.

If I was on the Solly or Malign side and designing missiles I would look into making a low powered first stage. Call it "marathon", and scale up the missile so the CM-derived "sprint" can slice through enemy counter missiles and survive. Also I'd want to see if I can't fit a nice energy mine or graser on as the warhead so I can out-range classic point defense.

Maldorian wrote:Maybe I wrote my post not clear enough or you are misunderstanding me:

"I am NOT talking about the Cataphracts! I am talking about the Sprint Drive technology and if it is useful for manty missles."

If you mean the streak drive: Not at all, this is a better but bigger hyper generator and no hyper capable missiles exist in the Honorverse.

aairfccha wrote:

Maldorian wrote:Maybe I wrote my post not clear enough or you are misunderstanding me:

"I am NOT talking about the Cataphracts! I am talking about the Sprint Drive technology and if it is useful for manty missles."

If you mean the streak drive: Not at all, this is a better but bigger hyper generator and no hyper capable missiles exist in the Honorverse.

Its quite astounding no hyper capable missiles exist.

If I was building a military I'd want a good number of hyper capable "missiles" which pop in over to a half a light year away from an enemy system, accelerate to a nice velocity of .2c and then drop the stealthiest package of ordinance I can make designed to ruin enemy planets. These missiles are of course basically automated ships.

You may need some sort of bug out colony ship/fleet if you get attacked because of the inevitable retribution. Probably something like a von Neumann probe, or at the very least as much automation as you can muster. That way the productivity of my new colony is maximized. You'd raise the people to be loyal and have the best genetic enhancements you can make for the same reason.

Actually, don't bother waiting to be attacked to leave. Why wait? Then capture any exploratory vessels and just chuck your hyper-missiles back at anyone who sends them. Keep a watch on nearby systems too, so you can grab them well before they find you.

quite possibly a cat wrote:Its quite astounding no hyper capable missiles exist.

If I was building a military I'd want a good number of hyper capable "missiles" which pop in over to a half a light year away from an enemy system, accelerate to a nice velocity of .2c and then drop the stealthiest package of ordinance I can make designed to ruin enemy planets. These missiles are of course basically automated ships.

You want your stealthy ordinance to arrive 2.5 years later? Wow, and I thought the spider drive attacks were long endurance at about 6 months!

And no need to make that an automated missile - it's just as easy to send a manned freighter or warship to do this.

quite possibly a cat wrote: Also I'd want to see if I can't fit a nice energy mine or graser on as the warhead so I can out-range classic point defense.

Energy mines are still bomb pumped lasers, just without wedges attached.

Grasers are big honking things - >1000 tons. The Graser torps with little Lt Cruiser Grasers are so big the ~5Mton Sharks each carried only 3 of them - EXTERNALLY.

Maldorian wrote:Maybe I wrote my post not clear enough or you are misunderstanding me:

"I am NOT talking about the Cataphracts! I am talking about the Sprint Drive technology and if it is useful for manty missles."

aairfccha wrote:If you mean the streak drive: Not at all, this is a better but bigger hyper generator and no hyper capable missiles exist in the Honorverse.

quite possibly a cat wrote:Its quite astounding no hyper capable missiles exist.

If I was building a military I'd want a good number of hyper capable "missiles" which pop in over to a half a light year away from an enemy system, accelerate to a nice velocity of .2c and then drop the stealthiest package of ordinance I can make designed to ruin enemy planets. These missiles are of course basically automated ships.

You may need some sort of bug out colony ship/fleet if you get attacked because of the inevitable retribution. Probably something like a von Neumann probe, or at the very least as much automation as you can muster. That way the productivity of my new colony is maximized. You'd raise the people to be loyal and have the best genetic enhancements you can make for the same reason.

Actually, don't bother waiting to be attacked to leave. Why wait? Then capture any exploratory vessels and just chuck your hyper-missiles back at anyone who sends them. Keep a watch on nearby systems too, so you can grab them well before they find you.

The Honorverse has a number of limitations that are there by authorial fiat. One is that there is no general AI. Task-specific AI, yes, but no general AI.

Another is that there are no robot ships. All ships have to have real humans on board doing essential tasks.

JohnRoth wrote:

Maldorian wrote:Maybe I wrote my post not clear enough or you are misunderstanding me:

"I am NOT talking about the Cataphracts! I am talking about the Sprint Drive technology and if it is useful for manty missles."

aairfccha wrote:If you mean the streak drive: Not at all, this is a better but bigger hyper generator and no hyper capable missiles exist in the Honorverse.

quite possibly a cat wrote:Its quite astounding no hyper capable missiles exist.

If I was building a military I'd want a good number of hyper capable "missiles" which pop in over to a half a light year away from an enemy system, accelerate to a nice velocity of .2c and then drop the stealthiest package of ordinance I can make designed to ruin enemy planets. These missiles are of course basically automated ships.

You may need some sort of bug out colony ship/fleet if you get attacked because of the inevitable retribution. Probably something like a von Neumann probe, or at the very least as much automation as you can muster. That way the productivity of my new colony is maximized. You'd raise the people to be loyal and have the best genetic enhancements you can make for the same reason.

Actually, don't bother waiting to be attacked to leave. Why wait? Then capture any exploratory vessels and just chuck your hyper-missiles back at anyone who sends them. Keep a watch on nearby systems too, so you can grab them well before they find you.

The Honorverse has a number of limitations that are there by authorial fiat. One is that there is no general AI. Task-specific AI, yes, but no general AI.

Another is that there are no robot ships. All ships have to have real humans on board doing essential tasks.

Another limitation is hyper/wormhole missiles. He has already written about them in his StarFury series, so specifically doesn't want them in the Honorverse series.