[Spoiler - UH] utube snippet

ldwechsler wrote:She's a key MAlign agent. She has openly lied which means that she knows she is likely to be caught. She did it, after all, from a ship.

Take a look at politics today (not a long one unless you have a strong stomach) and you see wildly different things on different news networks and people willing to believe whatever they've been told.

There will be people who believe her. Remember that her job is NOT to help Mesa but to muddle the waters. The simple thing would have been to NOT do it but she is under orders. We don't know what they are; we can just surmise.

And, frankly, she is really walking a tightrope. She may know that she may wind up a martyr of sorts. That might suit her. If she's proven to be a liar, she can be fired. Then she can disappear and turn up on Darius.

No argument, her job is to discredit Mesa, the GA and the Sollie Government. That said, if she is caught in a lie her credibility goes in the pot. If for example she tries to make hay and pin the bombings on Kornati on the Manties after they flipped Harahap she would be questioned.

Sure, some of her viewers are sheep, easily duped, but not all or even half are. There are anti-Manty factions out there but there are also quite a few intelligent people out there as well. Not only that but her leading said charge would still leave a lot of bread crumbs to be reconstructed after the fact.

Trust me, it would leave her in the position of having critical stories discredited. The key story the Alignment certainly doesn't want discredited is the false data she reported as the "truth" about New Tuscany. If that story publicly falls apart the Mandarins might start looking a lot more closely at the SLN's deployments and how they happened. Even worse it might lead a faction within the league to rationalize their government and throw out the Mandarins. The president's brother, I think his name was something like "Yo", isn't happy about the way things have been sliding out of control. If enough of them get antsy about Mesan conspiracies, especially if there is evidence that the Media had a hand in it, they could really put a crimp in the Alignment's plans. Bad enough that there are people within the Gendarmes and ONI looking into how those deployments happened, if the transtellars (there are more than just those on the the board of the Alignment) who know how it could have happened start believing it did happen the whole thing could come apart.

She won't do much about him other than questioning him and trying to discredit him. She's not going to try claiming he was a Manty agent all along. Let some conspiracy nut run the story.

She's a well known and trusted reporter, why risk it?

BrightSoul wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:She's a key MAlign agent. She has openly lied which means that she knows she is likely to be caught. She did it, after all, from a ship.

Take a look at politics today (not a long one unless you have a strong stomach) and you see wildly different things on different news networks and people willing to believe whatever they've been told.

There will be people who believe her. Remember that her job is NOT to help Mesa but to muddle the waters. The simple thing would have been to NOT do it but she is under orders. We don't know what they are; we can just surmise.

And, frankly, she is really walking a tightrope. She may know that she may wind up a martyr of sorts. That might suit her. If she's proven to be a liar, she can be fired. Then she can disappear and turn up on Darius.

No argument, her job is to discredit Mesa, the GA and the Sollie Government. That said, if she is caught in a lie her credibility goes in the pot. If for example she tries to make hay and pin the bombings on Kornati on the Manties after they flipped Harahap she would be questioned.

Sure, some of her viewers are sheep, easily duped, but not all or even half are. There are anti-Manty factions out there but there are also quite a few intelligent people out there as well. Not only that but her leading said charge would still leave a lot of bread crumbs to be reconstructed after the fact.

Trust me, it would leave her in the position of having critical stories discredited. The key story the Alignment certainly doesn't want discredited is the false data she reported as the "truth" about New Tuscany. If that story publicly falls apart the Mandarins might start looking a lot more closely at the SLN's deployments and how they happened. Even worse it might lead a faction within the league to rationalize their government and throw out the Mandarins. The president's brother, I think his name was something like "Yo", isn't happy about the way things have been sliding out of control. If enough of them get antsy about Mesan conspiracies, especially if there is evidence that the Media had a hand in it, they could really put a crimp in the Alignment's plans. Bad enough that there are people within the Gendarmes and ONI looking into how those deployments happened, if the transtellars (there are more than just those on the the board of the Alignment) who know how it could have happened start believing it did happen the whole thing could come apart.

She won't do much about him other than questioning him and trying to discredit him. She's not going to try claiming he was a Manty agent all along. Let some conspiracy nut run the story.

She's a well known and trusted reporter, why risk it?

Right - everything she says will have a nugget of truth at it's foundation. It might be interpreted, or a specific view, but it will be valid, especially with her 1st person experiences.

Another investigatory reporter may look at the data and if it doesn't hold true, blow holes in it. As long as she has valid data in her analysis, it was just a bad or misguided analysis - Being a baldfaced lie will allow others to blow holes in the story, and then her career.

BrightSoul wrote:I want to reply to the idea that O'Hanrahan can turn this against the Manties in some way.

IIRC DH was on Monica meeting with President Tyler, Aldona Anisimovna, Isabela Bardesano, and his superior officer in uniform. How is she going to spin this around on Manticore when they have him, and Tyler talking about how he was ORDERED to take those actions? Especially when TIY, Kalokainos Shipping and quite a few others were just convicted of criminal actions by the League's own courts for their parts in the scandal?

All she can do is expose more of Mesa's involvement and maybe muddy the waters. Sure, some sheep would believe her but far more people would begin to question her than believe her. It might even end up discrediting the false sensor records she published earlier. Maybe even give the Mandarins the excuse they need to save themselves.

Trust me, she'll stay away from it and focus on her Manty atrocities story on Mesa itself. The last thing she wants is to bring her credibility into question.

Harahap was not present at the meeting with President Tyler.

At the meeting involving Harahap: Damien Harahap, Major Eichbauer (Solarian Gendarme), Aldona Anisimovna, Isabel Bardasano [Shadow of Saganami, Chapter 13].

At the meeting with President Tyler: Roberto Tyler, Aldona Anisimovna, Hongbo Junyan (Vice-Commissioner of Talbott Sector Frontier Security), Isabel Bardasano, Izrok Levakonic (Technodyne) [Shadow of Saganami, later in Chapter 13].

BrightSoul wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:She's a key MAlign agent. She has openly lied which means that she knows she is likely to be caught. She did it, after all, from a ship.

Take a look at politics today (not a long one unless you have a strong stomach) and you see wildly different things on different news networks and people willing to believe whatever they've been told.

There will be people who believe her. Remember that her job is NOT to help Mesa but to muddle the waters. The simple thing would have been to NOT do it but she is under orders. We don't know what they are; we can just surmise.

And, frankly, she is really walking a tightrope. She may know that she may wind up a martyr of sorts. That might suit her. If she's proven to be a liar, she can be fired. Then she can disappear and turn up on Darius.

No argument, her job is to discredit Mesa, the GA and the Sollie Government. That said, if she is caught in a lie her credibility goes in the pot. If for example she tries to make hay and pin the bombings on Kornati on the Manties after they flipped Harahap she would be questioned.

Sure, some of her viewers are sheep, easily duped, but not all or even half are. There are anti-Manty factions out there but there are also quite a few intelligent people out there as well. Not only that but her leading said charge would still leave a lot of bread crumbs to be reconstructed after the fact.

Trust me, it would leave her in the position of having critical stories discredited. The key story the Alignment certainly doesn't want discredited is the false data she reported as the "truth" about New Tuscany. If that story publicly falls apart the Mandarins might start looking a lot more closely at the SLN's deployments and how they happened. Even worse it might lead a faction within the league to rationalize their government and throw out the Mandarins. The president's brother, I think his name was something like "Yo", isn't happy about the way things have been sliding out of control. If enough of them get antsy about Mesan conspiracies, especially if there is evidence that the Media had a hand in it, they could really put a crimp in the Alignment's plans. Bad enough that there are people within the Gendarmes and ONI looking into how those deployments happened, if the transtellars (there are more than just those on the the board of the Alignment) who know how it could have happened start believing it did happen the whole thing could come apart.

She won't do much about him other than questioning him and trying to discredit him. She's not going to try claiming he was a Manty agent all along. Let some conspiracy nut run the story.

She's a well known and trusted reporter, why risk it?

I think the New Tuscany data has already been discredited, but only the Intelligence Cabal is connecting the dots. Further, because the fake was so good, it hasn't hurt Hanrahan. She's being seen as an honest reporter duped by a really good forgery.

ldwechsler wrote:
She's a key MAlign agent. She has openly lied which means that she knows she is likely to be caught. She did it, after all, from a ship.

Take a look at politics today (not a long one unless you have a strong stomach) and you see wildly different things on different news networks and people willing to believe whatever they've been told.

There will be people who believe her. Remember that her job is NOT to help Mesa but to muddle the waters. The simple thing would have been to NOT do it but she is under orders. We don't know what they are; we can just surmise.

And, frankly, she is really walking a tightrope. She may know that she may wind up a martyr of sorts. That might suit her. If she's proven to be a liar, she can be fired. Then she can disappear and turn up on Darius.

When did she lie? I don't remember that one. Not surprising as it's been a while now since i've done any kind of massive re-read, and things are getting muddy mentally.

Bluesqueak wrote:I think the New Tuscany data has already been discredited, but only the Intelligence Cabal is connecting the dots. Further, because the fake was so good, it hasn't hurt Hanrahan. She's being seen as an honest reporter duped by a really good forgery.

The data is known to be suspect among ONI staffers but the general public doesn't know this. Remember Abruzzi's Education and Information have been pushing her data as the real thing. John Q Public is getting that line, not the truth. If she is discredited it could make it difficult for the Alignment.

Lets not forget that the Alignment has been flying by the seat of their pants ever since Manticore defeated the PRH. There are likely even more bread crumbs out there than we have seen.

Vince wrote:Harahap was not present at the meeting with President Tyler.

At the meeting involving Harahap: Damien Harahap, Major Eichbauer (Solarian Gendarme), Aldona Anisimovna, Isabel Bardasano [Shadow of Saganami, Chapter 13].

At the meeting with President Tyler: Roberto Tyler, Aldona Anisimovna, Hongbo Junyan (Vice-Commissioner of Talbott Sector Frontier Security), Isabel Bardasano, Izrok Levakonic (Technodyne) [Shadow of Saganami, later in Chapter 13].

Thanks for the reference. That said, the important element is that he was in uniform on Monica with his superior officer. Even if he didn't meet the President he was very openly present in system at the time of those meetings.

Fox2! wrote:

TangoLima wrote:Who knows that they have Harahap.
The highest levels of the SEM, Haven and Grayson,
The other side 'knows' he isn't bonded with a treecat.
Give him bioscult and keep it quiet and the MAlignment
will not have a clue. You can hide him in plain sight.
Agents go missing on operations, missing assumed dead.
I believe the is the sinmplest solution

The crew of his courier? or did he send her away when the balloon went up on the Civil War/War of Liberation/War of Independence/what ever they decide to call it?

The balloon went up whilst he was on-planet & he had no way of returning to or even contacting them. The courier's crew will know something has happened as they have lost contact but they will not know what. When they eventually return to the Alignment they will have to report that they lost contact with him & that he is missing.

Fox2! wrote:

TangoLima wrote:Who knows that they have Harahap.
The highest levels of the SEM, Haven and Grayson,
The other side 'knows' he isn't bonded with a treecat.
Give him bioscult and keep it quiet and the MAlignment
will not have a clue. You can hide him in plain sight.
Agents go missing on operations, missing assumed dead.
I believe the is the sinmplest solution

The crew of his courier? or did he send her away when the balloon went up on the Civil War/War of Liberation/War of Independence/what ever they decide to call it?

[quote="Rincewind]
The balloon went up whilst he was on-planet & he had no way of returning to or even contacting them. The courier's crew will know something has happened as they have lost contact but they will not know what. When they eventually return to the Alignment they will have to report that they lost contact with him & that he is missing.[/quote]

And since his Alignment superiors, apparently, believe he had the nanite-sucide protocols administered, they'll assume that those protocols have been, or soon will be activated. (I'm not sure how long they would've let an agent, given Harahap's assignment, go before his suicide occurs.) But, unless they're told otherwise the Alignment is going to assume this loose end has been tied off.

BrightSoul wrote:I want to reply to the idea that O'Hanrahan can turn this against the Manties in some way.

IIRC DH was on Monica meeting with President Tyler, Aldona Anisimovna, Isabela Bardesano, and his superior officer in uniform. How is she going to spin this around on Manticore when they have him, and Tyler talking about how he was ORDERED to take those actions? Especially when TIY, Kalokainos Shipping and quite a few others were just convicted of criminal actions by the League's own courts for their parts in the scandal?

All she can do is expose more of Mesa's involvement and maybe muddy the waters. Sure, some sheep would believe her but far more people would begin to question her than believe her. It might even end up discrediting the false sensor records she published earlier. Maybe even give the Mandarins the excuse they need to save themselves.

Trust me, she'll stay away from it and focus on her Manty atrocities story on Mesa itself. The last thing she wants is to bring her credibility into question.

First she needs to find out he's in Manty custody. The Manties might be able to keep that secret.

Once that happens turning it against the Manties is simple. She'll discover evidence that DH was involved in various terrorist attacks that killed a whole lot of civilians. She'll interview some people who lost family members who just really want to see this horrible mass murderer brought to justice. She'll give glowing coverage about how the Manties caught the man behind these horrific attacks and ask the Manties when he'll face trial for his horrible, horrible crimes.

O'Hanrahan at no point distorts the facts. She actually gives the Manties good coverage on this! Theoretically another reporter could do it too, but O'Hanrahan has some good "sources".

The Manties can dodge or delay, but they ultimately have a few options:

1) They say he won't face trial. The people who lost family are unbelievably angry. She, or any other reporter looking for an easy scoop, can get as much footage as she wants from grieving widows, grieving parents who lost kids, etc. who are absolutely furious. Kornati demands he be handed over to their local court system for trial and execution. O'Hanrahan can leave it to the opposition parties and other newsies to do the spin.

2) They set a trial date for his various horrific crimes. Evidence is overwhelming and all signs point to him being executed. O'Hanrahan gives Manticore some good coverage, which just goes to show she's in no way biased against Manticore!

How do you think the Treecats will respond to that? I'm guessing the murder of everyone willing to prosecute or testify against DH.

3) Split the difference and give him a deal for life in prison. This might work! But it could also just anger grieving families who want him dead, AND Treecats who don't want a fellow Treecat essentially imprisoned, or cut off from his companion.