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Stuff you just can't make up

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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by Joat42   » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:21 pm

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gcomeau wrote:..snip..
This is a circus, where the fiscal health of the entire country hangs in the balance.

Well, they are dead set on passing this because of trickle up economy but they sell it as trickle down economy.

When someone says trickle down economy works they are either too stupid to understand it or lying through their teeth. Records show that every time you introduce tax cuts for the rich and the corporations it invariably lead to a worse income inequality - which is kind of natural if you think about it.

If one looks at the different "tax reforms" that has been introduced in US since 1979 to 2005 for which trickle down economics was the basis, the 5th lowest incomes only increased 6% after tax but the 5th highest increased 80%. The top 1% increased their income 300%...

So, in other words, trickle up economy.

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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by Annachie   » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:22 am

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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4877350082

Unbelievable.
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by biochem   » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:48 pm

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The Senate bill has definately been a moving target. Note the last minute HANDWRITTEN alterations!!!! :shock: :lol: :roll:
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by gcomeau   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:38 am

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biochem wrote:The Senate bill has definately been a moving target. Note the last minute HANDWRITTEN alterations!!!! :shock: :lol: :roll:


Those handwritten alterations were transcribing instructions from lobbyists that shifted around BILLIONS of dollars worth of spending and revenue.

The night they forced a vote on it.

Without LETTING ANYONE READ IT ALL FIRST.

No analysis. No score on the alterations. No debate. No public hearing. And the score they did have said they were at least a Trillion short on their revenue claims to pay for it.

This from the group that screamed bloody murder about "recklessly rushing" the ACA through in only 8 months of hearings and debates.


There is no defending this. Not by any stretch of the imagination. They poured gasoline on every norm of the legislative process and danced around the bonfire for no reason except their big donors gave them orders to do it.
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by biochem   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:59 am

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gcomeau wrote:
biochem wrote:The Senate bill has definately been a moving target. Note the last minute HANDWRITTEN alterations!!!! :shock: :lol: :roll:


There is no defending this. Not by any stretch of the imagination. They poured gasoline on every norm of the legislative process and danced around the bonfire for no reason except their big donors gave them orders to do it.


:roll:

Good grief. You sound like my middle school drama queen daughter. Gasoline, seriously? Dramatic much?

NOT my preferred way to write a bill though. I've previously advocated here for some requirements regarding time to read bills before voting etc. But although considerably less than ideal, it's not the end of the world. These changes were discussed orally and the bill still has to go through reconciliation after which there will be another vote. This time without the last minute negotiations.
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by biochem   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:07 am

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Found it - in the governance reform Thread (sorry It's not the proper link to an old post but it will get you there)

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3748
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by gcomeau   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:26 am

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biochem wrote:
gcomeau wrote:There is no defending this. Not by any stretch of the imagination. They poured gasoline on every norm of the legislative process and danced around the bonfire for no reason except their big donors gave them orders to do it.


:roll:

Good grief. You sound like my middle school drama queen daughter. Gasoline, seriously? Dramatic much?


No. Really not.

Do you seriously not comprehend the scope and magnitude of the perversion of the legislative process that happened here? How GROSSLY out of line this was?
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by biochem   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:46 am

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gcomeau wrote:
No. Really not.

Do you seriously not comprehend the scope and magnitude of the perversion of the legislative process that happened here? How GROSSLY out of line this was?



It's not the first time.

Nancy Pelosi "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it." Obamacare 2010

Poor governance yes, but not the end of the world then and not the end of the world now.
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by gcomeau   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am

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biochem wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
No. Really not.

Do you seriously not comprehend the scope and magnitude of the perversion of the legislative process that happened here? How GROSSLY out of line this was?



It's not the first time.

Nancy Pelosi "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it." Obamacare 2010

Poor governance yes, but not the end of the world then and not the end of the world now.


Yes the first time. There has never been anything like this inflicted on the Senate.

Obamacare was in public hearings after the bill came out of committee for MONTHS before they voted on it. Dozens of public hearings. Extensive expert analysis of the effects of the specific language in revision after revision. Full, proper CBO scoring.

This bill had ZERO public hearings. ZERO debate. ZERO analysis of the actual final text... and the analysis of the original preliminary text said all the claims its authors were making about its deficit impact were a TRILLION dollars wrong. They called for the vote the same day they were writing it in a secret backroom committee.

That quote is taken WAY out of context to even attempt to imply these situations have the remotest similarity.
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Re: Stuff you just can't make up
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:49 am

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I can see that the current "We have no idea what we're voting on" bill is... shall we say considerably less than optimum in almost every single respect, but given Trump's previous performances, I doubt it well get through Congress without being ripped apart.
Even if it does get through, I doubt that America will go the way of Venezuela (total societal/economic implosion) or Zimbabwe (endemic corruption/widespread starvation), so while it may cause a Depression and panic in government, I don't think America will actually collapse.

And if America does collapse, well, we can always simply abrogate the Declaration of Independence and bring it into the United Kingdom.
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