Travis Long & his lack of recognition

Fox2! wrote:Someplace, somewhere, Elizabeth Winton, Third of her name, speculates on the fact that all three of the Kings of Manticore who have heirs named "Elizabeth" have met untimely ends.

Roger I died of old age. Although his reign as King was short, that was because he'd spent the prior 50 years being Mr. Colonial Administrator.

munroburton wrote:

Fox2! wrote:Someplace, somewhere, Elizabeth Winton, Third of her name, speculates on the fact that all three of the Kings of Manticore who have heirs named "Elizabeth" have met untimely ends.

Roger I died of old age. Although his reign as King was short, that was because he'd spent the prior 50 years being Mr. Colonial Administrator.

IIRC King Roger II was succeeded by Queen Adrienne I Winton.

saber964 wrote:

munroburton wrote:(Original post about Elizabeth III reflecting on the short reigns of kings with heirs named Elizabeth omitted)

Roger I died of old age. Although his reign as King was short, that was because he'd spent the prior 50 years being Mr. Colonial Administrator.

IIRC King Roger II was succeeded by Queen Adrienne I Winton.

The original post was that kings with heirs named Elizabeth had short reigns, not that Kings named Roger who had heirs named Elizabeth had short reigns. Now I'll have to re-read every book to find my source.

Fox2! wrote:

saber964"[quote="munroburton wrote:(Original post about Elizabeth III reflecting on the short reigns of kings with heirs named Elizabeth omitted)

Roger I died of old age. Although his reign as King was short, that was because he'd spent the prior 50 years being Mr. Colonial Administrator.

IIRC King Roger II was succeeded by Queen Adrienne I Winton.

The original post was that kings with heirs named Elizabeth had short reigns, not that Kings named Roger who had heirs named Elizabeth had short reigns. Now I'll have to re-read every book to find my source. [/quote]


I don't know but King Michael I served 21 T-Years after Queen Elizabeth I and King David I served 41 T-Years after Queen Elizabeth II and Queen Elizabeth III is still on the throne for the foreseeable future.

saber964 wrote:I don't know but King Michael I served 21 T-Years after Queen Elizabeth I and King David I served 41 T-Years after Queen Elizabeth II and Queen Elizabeth III is still on the throne for the foreseeable future.

You have it backwards. The short reigns are for Kings with heirs named Elizabeth not "heirs OF Elizabeths"

saber964 wrote:

No, according to textev the MWJ was discovered in 1585 PD when the survey ship Pathfinder made transit to Beowulf. Between 1585 and 1590 PD the discovery's of (in order) Beowulf Trevor's Star and Hennsey took place. Also most of the termani are inhabited with nearby star systems.

Beowulf inhabited
Trevor's Star inhabited
Hennsey inhabited
Matapan uninhabited
Gregor A inhabited Gregor B
Basilisk inhabited
Lynx B uninhabited 4LY Lynx A inhabited

Reviving this thread: I'd guess that Travis has to be connected with the wormhole somehow, because not only is he neatly placed in time just before its discovery, but he's been helpfully provided with training in maintaining and interpreting gravitics equipment, followed by postgrad work in astrophysics. He's a gravity expert - and wormholes are found by gravitic anomalies.

Alexrod, of course, are going to go down in history as the official discoverers - but it might well be Travis who has the initial crazy idea that they've found a junction. That this wormhole is so strange because they've not found one bridge at all, but three.

He's not remembered outside the navy because he's the ideas man, not the developer. He functions best as part of a team, and it's the team who ends up with the credit.

As to it taking thirty or forty years before the first transit, I imagine that the science of wormhole transits is in its infancy and that Axelrod were thinking very long term. Plus the likely massive Manticorian turf wars over building and paying for a survey ship for a wormhole that may initially look very strange (and thus probably useless). Given that Elizabeth II, who is older than Travis, is still alive when the wormhole transit occurs, there's nothing to prevent Travis being heavily involved.

Incidentally, the other thing that didn't hit me right off is that Travis' mother is so disinterested in her son because she's probably been traumatised by so many deaths. The plague years, her parents, possibly siblings - then both her husbands. She's either scared to show that she cares, or has shut down because of the trauma.

We do not know that Travis has no recognition through his life.....

In SoV we have Sinead Terekhov recount her family connections and lists one of her cousins in the Long family is Baron Winterfall. That implies that Travis might inherit his half brothers seat.

We also only the names of note mentioned to date, not other names of note that do not come directly into the story line.

kenl511 wrote:We do not know that Travis has no recognition through his life.....

In SoV we have Sinead Terekhov recount her family connections and lists one of her cousins in the Long family is Baron Winterfall. That implies that Travis might inherit his half brothers seat.

We also only the names of note mentioned to date, not other names of note that do not come directly into the story line.

In Chapter 12 of SoV, Sir Aivars Terekhov says to himself,

Terekhov scowled. Sinead Aurora O’Daley Terekhov was a daughter of two of the oldest naval dynasties in the RMN. She was also a cousin of the present Duke of Winterfell, and her ancestors had been commanding Queen’s ships—and serving in sensitive Foreign Office positions, come to that—for the better part of a T-century before the very first Terekhov’s shuttle ever touched down in Landing.

So, someplace between the time of A Call to Arms and Shadow of Victory, Winterfell gets raised to a Duchy. Unless it's one of those eARC glitches.

Bluesqueak wrote:

saber964 wrote:

No, according to textev the MWJ was discovered in 1585 PD when the survey ship Pathfinder made transit to Beowulf. Between 1585 and 1590 PD the discovery's of (in order) Beowulf Trevor's Star and Hennsey took place. Also most of the termani are inhabited with nearby star systems.

Beowulf inhabited
Trevor's Star inhabited
Hennsey inhabited
Matapan uninhabited
Gregor A inhabited Gregor B
Basilisk inhabited
Lynx B uninhabited 4LY Lynx A inhabited

Reviving this thread: I'd guess that Travis has to be connected with the wormhole somehow, because not only is he neatly placed in time just before its discovery, but he's been helpfully provided with training in maintaining and interpreting gravitics equipment, followed by postgrad work in astrophysics. He's a gravity expert - and wormholes are found by gravitic anomalies.

Alexrod, of course, are going to go down in history as the official discoverers - but it might well be Travis who has the initial crazy idea that they've found a junction. That this wormhole is so strange because they've not found one bridge at all, but three.

He's not remembered outside the navy because he's the ideas man, not the developer. He functions best as part of a team, and it's the team who ends up with the credit.

As to it taking thirty or forty years before the first transit, I imagine that the science of wormhole transits is in its infancy and that Axelrod were thinking very long term. Plus the likely massive Manticorian turf wars over building and paying for a survey ship for a wormhole that may initially look very strange (and thus probably useless). Given that Elizabeth II, who is older than Travis, is still alive when the wormhole transit occurs, there's nothing to prevent Travis being heavily involved.

Incidentally, the other thing that didn't hit me right off is that Travis' mother is so disinterested in her son because she's probably been traumatised by so many deaths. The plague years, her parents, possibly siblings - then both her husbands. She's either scared to show that she cares, or has shut down because of the trauma.

The MWJ was not "discovered" by the first transit. The location had to be pretty well established prior to that trip. Part of the delay between the first inklings of the presence of the MWJ (that collection of strange hyperspace anomalies?) and first transit was spent localizing it, while the RMN, MPARS and the Manticoran Royal Academy of Sciences fought over who was going to fund, build, man and command Pathfinder. and the continuing interrogation of Mr. Llyn, the commander of the occupation force, the Governor-designate, and, if they didn't suicide when they walked into the open arms of Aegis, the Axelrod "advisors". There may already be a "Sources Sought" and an "RFI" posted in the Manticoran Commerce Business Daily for contractor Royal Inquisitor Generals and Royal Torturers.

Fox2! wrote:
The MWJ was not "discovered" by the first transit. The location had to be pretty well established prior to that trip. Part of the delay between the first inklings of the presence of the MWJ (that collection of strange hyperspace anomalies?) and first transit was spent localizing it, while the RMN, MPARS and the Manticoran Royal Academy of Sciences fought over who was going to fund, build, man and command Pathfinder. and the continuing interrogation of Mr. Llyn, the commander of the occupation force, the Governor-designate, and, if they didn't suicide when they walked into the open arms of Aegis, the Axelrod "advisors". There may already be a "Sources Sought" and an "RFI" posted in the Manticoran Commerce Business Daily for contractor Royal Inquisitor Generals and Royal Torturers.

I suspect that Axelrod did not make the data gathered by the merry band of pirates on Izbeca available to Manticore.