Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

ldwechsler wrote:For something that HAS to be a great secret, having it done on Manticore would probably be an unacceptable risk.

The lab work probably wasn't done on Manticore. That doesn't preclude it being done in the Manticore system. A ship with diplomatic immunity or lying doggo in the outer system would do fine for a secret lab location; if it is outside the hyper-limit it is almost interception proof and a self-destruct takes care of the possibility of capture anywhere.

A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

FWIW, it doesn't seem to me that the muscle-memory training can be done with the victim's DNA directly. The muscle memory training could be done by anyone, anywhere and passed off as rehearsals for a drama. The participants don't even need to know the target or any other part of the plan; "accidents" could be arranged if necessary.

Weird Harold wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:For something that HAS to be a great secret, having it done on Manticore would probably be an unacceptable risk.

The lab work probably wasn't done on Manticore. That doesn't preclude it being done in the Manticore system. A ship with diplomatic immunity or lying doggo in the outer system would do fine for a secret lab location; if it is outside the hyper-limit it is almost interception proof and a self-destruct takes care of the possibility of capture anywhere.

A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

FWIW, it doesn't seem to me that the muscle-memory training can be done with the victim's DNA directly. The muscle memory training could be done by anyone, anywhere and passed off as rehearsals for a drama. The participants don't even need to know the target or any other part of the plan; "accidents" could be arranged if necessary.

Again, extreme danger. Not many diplomatic immunity ships. The only likely ones would be from the Sollies. Same for newsies. All it would take is one person leaking to the Manties and they would have everything they need.

Of course, doing it on a planet that is a junction jump away might work pretty well.

Actually, the whole methodology seems preposterous. Somehow you will do something if certain conditions exist? Sounds awfully difficult to pull off.

What would have happened if Honor had stepped into an elevator just as her aide grabbed a gun and was no longer a target. What could he answer when the gun was taken away?

Even more to the point, what would have happened if someone had grabbed the guy while it was going on? Talk about revealing a whole ploy.

ldwechsler wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

Again, extreme danger. Not many diplomatic immunity ships. The only likely ones would be from the Sollies. Same for newsies. All it would take is one person leaking to the Manties and they would have everything they need.

The MAlign doesn't believe that any of its operatives would be that careless. We do know they have Streak Drive dispatch boats that use the MWHJ and are registered to transtellar news services. Adding a DNA lab to an already top secret, burn before reading, spy ship would be no big thing.

Weird Harold wrote:

ldwechsler wrote: A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

Again, extreme danger. Not many diplomatic immunity ships. The only likely ones would be from the Sollies. Same for newsies. All it would take is one person leaking to the Manties and they would have everything they need.

Just remember: it only takes one real problem to open up a world of hurt. People can get careless. Using a streak drive would open up even more questions. If you're being chased and use it, it would say a real lot to the Manties.

Being found out would be a real disaster. Remember that the assassination in Anderman was against the dynasty. Torch would certainly want to have a real discussion. And if the news got out in the Solarian League, the mandarins who saw an ambassador get killed in front of them would have to act.

Chances are for Meares that someone got it far earlier. For the others there would have been plenty of time. Secrecy was absolutely vital. Once the info on the nano stuff got out it helped convince some of Prichard's opponents.

The best place to do it? The Beowulf Embassy. It has diplomatic immunity so the host country won't search it, and if you've infiltrated the embassy deep enough you won't need to worry about Beowulf catching you. If the host country tracks you down anyway?

Looks like Beowulf was manufacturing bioweapons!

The other obvious place to do it would be in hyperspace. They aren't going to find you there.

ldwechsler wrote:Just remember: it only takes one real problem to open up a world of hurt. People can get careless. Using a streak drive would open up even more questions. If you're being chased and use it, it would say a real lot to the Manties.

The MAlign isn't as paranoid as you seem to be. They simply don't think anyone is as smart as they are, so they rely on less than perfect security -- although their security is pretty good and totally ruthless.

For Adm Webster's assassination, they used an outside hacker to set up the phony evidence of Haven's "guilt" -- who was immediately assassinated when he showed up to collect his pay.

Using the Beowulf Embassy for a nanite weapon production against Manticore would presuppose all sorts of penetratration of Beowulf's diplomatic core or it's embasy staff at a very high scientifc capability level. Not likely or the Alignment would be likely getting all sorts of information about Beowulf's plans, intents, capabilities etc.

Even if there was a with the lab in the Manticore system, the question of where and how a person (or any sublight ship) would be getting back and forth to it. If it was something stealthed OUTSIDE the hyperlimit, there is going to a lot of interest in why something with an impeller is wandering around out there- coming from inside the system or to/from a ship entering/leaving the system.

Freighter in orbit or docked at a station would be much easier and not draw so much attention though it's crew or passengers would have to pass though whatever security is set up for these things. Think comming into a country via an airport or ship terminal. A private yacht would also work. The questions with either a transport or yacht would be level of customs inspection and security access to either a station or ground.

I probably is easier for someone to purchase the equipment, materials, supplies etc and create a (relatively) small & secure secret lab on Manticore than to do the work in orbit and have to have your agents travel back and forth off planet. Use the example of a Meth lab in present day.....apparently people create these all the time in ways that law enfrocement can't track or identify and they don't usually get discovered until there is either leads from other things like arresting or tracking people involved or somebody sees something odd - or the lab has a catastrophic accident. We have seen this weapon being used on Earth (the Haven Ambasador's driver- the head of the SLN), in the Aldermani Empire (attcking a member of the Imperial Family), on Haven and on Manticore though the person was triggered on a warship in orbit. Then there was the setting up Filerta's staff officer and we don't really know where he had been when he was infected.
You could have a lab (and people needed to do the full work) set up and then taken apart and discarded/destroyed at the component part level quietly. You probably (even the Alignment) would want the people extracted -also quietly-. If nobody is looking for them due to lack of connection to any problem it's tought to catch someone who's only incriminating evidence is in their head.

Brigade XO wrote:Using the Beowulf Embassy for a nanite weapon production against Manticore would presuppose all sorts of penetratration of Beowulf's diplomatic core or it's embasy staff at a very high scientifc capability level. Not likely or the Alignment would be likely getting all sorts of information about Beowulf's plans, intents, capabilities etc.

It wouldn't need to be that high of a level of penetration. Just a embassy's resident janitor and her family. Or a random secretary. Or the embassy doctor. If they have decent protocols and set up for classified documents they wouldn't be able to access anything sensitive.

I still think the best place (other than a Beowulf embassy) to put it would be in hyperspace. You can hide entire fleets of super-dreadnoughts there.

Weird Harold wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:For something that HAS to be a great secret, having it done on Manticore would probably be an unacceptable risk.

The lab work probably wasn't done on Manticore. That doesn't preclude it being done in the Manticore system. A ship with diplomatic immunity or lying doggo in the outer system would do fine for a secret lab location; if it is outside the hyper-limit it is almost interception proof and a self-destruct takes care of the possibility of capture anywhere.

A "news-corp" dispatch boat probably has enough space for the lab, even with a Streak Drive's space requirement. A tramp freighter outside the hyper-limit would even have room for all sorts of muscle memory training.

FWIW, it doesn't seem to me that the muscle-memory training can be done with the victim's DNA directly. The muscle memory training could be done by anyone, anywhere and passed off as rehearsals for a drama. The participants don't even need to know the target or any other part of the plan; "accidents" could be arranged if necessary.

Yeah.

I think it's pretty clear that the nanite is basically a mind-controlling tape recorder. While I don't know about actually needing the DNA per se, they must know exactly how the target moves. If they try to play a recording that isn't precisely tailored for the target they aren't going to get the action they desire.

I think it's rather like what we saw with Honor learning to use her new arm, except they only rehearse the desired action.

Thus you need a lab and you need a stage to rehearse the action on. This is complex enough that I strongly suspect it's being done in a ship lurking out beyond the hyper limit, not on the ground.

As for Mears, two possibilities come to mind:

1) They actually had several targets that they had the DNA and prepared the nanites. He was just unlucky enough to have a schedule that caused them to pick him.

2) They prepped nanites for him and waited around until his schedule worked for their purposes.

ldwechsler wrote:Actually, the whole methodology seems preposterous. Somehow you will do something if certain conditions exist? Sounds awfully difficult to pull off.

What would have happened if Honor had stepped into an elevator just as her aide grabbed a gun and was no longer a target. What could he answer when the gun was taken away?

Even more to the point, what would have happened if someone had grabbed the guy while it was going on? Talk about revealing a whole ploy.

I do agree that the triggering is a big problem--but that's something people who aren't programmers tend to overlook. Very often the easy is hard and the hard is easy. Just because we can express it in a few words doesn't mean it's not a huge headache to code.

As for what happens if it goes wrong--I've been repeatedly saying that the basic flaw with the MAlign is they're too smart for their own good--they think their brilliant plans will work as designed, they've forgotten the old adage that no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

They have already had one big example of this failure in Talbott.