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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:19 pm

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Aren't we overdoing the separation of the sciences too much. Yes, Simoes is a theoretical physicist. And, yes, he was working on the streak drive, not the spider.

Remember back to the Manhattan Project (the real one, construction of the A-bomb, not the dozen or so fictional ones). The scientists talked to each other, got ideas.

Now, granted the Onion kept people apart but would they separate the people working on drives, the physicists all that much? After all, a success in one area could bring one in another.

Keep in mind that all the Manties know is what they were able to glean from some sensor records. Yes, they can build ways to look for whatever impact the spider drives give off.

But Simoes is likely to know more. And they will use him.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:15 pm

cthia
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ldwechsler wrote:Aren't we overdoing the separation of the sciences too much. Yes, Simoes is a theoretical physicist. And, yes, he was working on the streak drive, not the spider.

Remember back to the Manhattan Project (the real one, construction of the A-bomb, not the dozen or so fictional ones). The scientists talked to each other, got ideas.

Now, granted the Onion kept people apart but would they separate the people working on drives, the physicists all that much? After all, a success in one area could bring one in another.

Keep in mind that all the Manties know is what they were able to glean from some sensor records. Yes, they can build ways to look for whatever impact the spider drives give off.

But Simoes is likely to know more. And they will use him.

I share the same sentiment and have a post to that effect floating about somewhere. Could the MAlign afford to separate the physicists? Breakthroughs are oftentimes spring boarded off the backs of other successes.

Also, there's the testing phase. The tech must be tested, then redeveloped. Rinse and repeat. There must be input from the field operatives as well.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:00 pm

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cthia wrote:
n7axw wrote:I rather doubt that such things as missiles are being moved aroundby routine commercial shipping services.

That would be like sending a load of Tomahawks via UPS, for Pete's sake. Either you have a specialty service that is cleared and bonded to provide such a service or the military decides to do it directly in house.

Don

-


True. But I think you are making the mistake of getting too caught up "By The Book."

The notion isn't to say who actually owns said freighters and shipping. And whether crew are planted. If one digs deeper. Like in the case with Hauptman's freighters.

Proxy owned. The notion of hidden subsidaries.

MAlign = To hide. To bury in red tape. To kill the person reading the tape.

Oftentimes the best place to hide is in plain sight. How long had Hauptman's freighters gotten away with those pelts and God knows what else over the years.



Finding time to read SoV. Neato! And what do I come across right off the bat to support my sentiment? Glad you asked...

Remember the freighter Marianne—the Golden Butterfly— running arms in Monica to Norbrandt the Butcher? Which came from the SLN by complicity of Technodyne, using the SLN’s own in-house inspectors. See? I can just sense these things. It is a function of logic. :D

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:07 pm

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I see we are getting WAY off topic. Need a new snippet badly.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:27 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:I see we are getting WAY off topic. Need a new snippet badly.



Off topic, toff opic! We need a new snippet badly. The last one was back in September.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by pappilon   » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:44 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:I see we are getting WAY off topic. Need a new snippet badly.



Off topic, toff opic! We need a new snippet badly. The last one was back in September.



Yes ... but we did get
SPOILERS: Continuity Errors — A Challenge
by runsforcelery » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:58 am.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:21 pm

cthia
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THE ANNACHIE OPTION


"Please, we're talking about the MAlign.
It will be targeted nanotec."

Annachie

—SOL System ca. 2017 A.D.



I must make clear that the premise of this thread can be carried out at any Malign opportune time, in the distant future, orchestrated by the shockingly helpful hand of Aldona Anisimovna.

To get us back on topic, there is something that puzzles me. It should be common knowledge by now that the Mesan nanotec needs to be previously targeted to a specific DNA to function. We all seem to take that as a built-in limitation of the tech. After all—without such a limitation—it would make Annachie's theory that the premise of this thread would be carried out by targeted nanotec, very plausible.

However, what if it isn't as much of a limitation as it is an inconvenience? Regardless, what makes up for any inconvenience is the shocking ease of acquiring a sample. In the 21st century, forensics can work with the smallest samples of DNA that have aged considerably, even one that is decades old and obtained from the unlikeliest source. The police consistently obtain samples from discarded soda cans. A strand of hair. Lipstick on a glass. Saliva on a straw. That's all 21st century tech. Project that notion onto the Honorverse.

Which brings me full circle to what plagues me. That business with Lt. Meares all happened when he was on shore leave. Is that also when the Malign surreptitiously acquired his DNA, then cooked up the nanite to later administer it to him by aerosol, while he still remained on planet? It seems unlikely that the Malign would have known—enough ahead of time—that Meares would be ground side, or rather, any conditional lead time would have been insignificant if it involved a subsequent travel element from another system. It is also intuitive that the plan called for someone who routinely comes within a reasonably close proximity to Harrington.

It is also unlikely that a DNA sample was obtained prior to that incident, spirited off-planet to a lab on Darius or Mesa, then hypered back to Manticore in time to infect Meares on his next shore leave. That synopsis is much too sententious and requires too many moving parts. Which leads me to think that Lt. Meares was an incidental and convenient target whose DNA was acquired on that same outing and the Meares-nanite was developed in some type of a very portable setup on Manticore. Perhaps in a lab contained in the confines of a briefcase. If present logic holds water, then the implications of the ease of acquiring DNA and time to deployment is frightening.

Examining Annachie's notion of the premise of this thread being carried out by targeted nanotec a bit closer, brings me to question whether one concoction of aerosol spray can contain a mixture of many different targets, but infecting only one host -- being that any "one" of many specific strands of DNA is present in the mist.

Of course, this would introduce questions of required concentrations to remain effective, but if it is as potent as Ebola or Solly stupidity then the consideration is rather moot.

"Which brings us full circle to Annachie's notion," says Anisimovna. "We may be able to blanket significant areas with nanite tainted aerosol from vectors as common as air ducts to the disarmingly beautiful, innocuous and sexy parfum-samplers in malls -- who routinely spray unsuspecting passersby without permission."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:50 pm

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If you are the Alignment, you probably aren't going to want to have some agent or stooge collect a sample of DNA, SHIP IT to Mesa (or espeicialy Darius) and then send back the tailored nanite by a similar route to infect the target.

Much more likely that you have some sort of kit or mini-lab which you would have to either earlier hidden on your target's planet or in a ship in orbit. Of course that means that the lab would be vulnerable to either detection while in transit to or on the planet or could be compromised and captured on the ground or with said ship.

Part of the problem I see is that not only do you have to aquire your target's DNA you have to both get hooked up with the nanite agent and you have to program the movements you want you target to make while cutting his conscious brain out of the control. So do you have some menu/inventory of movements (human average) that you "drop-in" to the nanite?
1st you need the nanite to recognize a specific trigger to initiate the sequences. 2nd you have to have the nanite control the sequence.....Meares grabs the sidearm of one of Honors guards and starts shooting, mostly at her. He had to get to at least a position where he could get at the sidearm then deal with the guard's reaction (I didn't go back and look for that) then open fire and ....keep fireing till he died. That is quite bit more complicated that what they did to the head of SLN who was fed a trigger message by commuinicator then opened a draw and shot himself in the head.
So how and where do you program the nanties? Is this something that can be done by the lab more than once and if so, how much of the nanites do you need (or have the ability to produce and train) for two or three hits? Or would there have been some "accident" that destroys the local source/production location without leaving any evidence that this might be a biolab? How many of these kits or labs are out there now?
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Eagleeye   » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:29 am

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Brigade XO wrote:If you are the Alignment, you probably aren't going to want to have some agent or stooge collect a sample of DNA, SHIP IT to Mesa (or espeicialy Darius) and then send back the tailored nanite by a similar route to infect the target.

Much more likely that you have some sort of kit or mini-lab which you would have to either earlier hidden on your target's planet or in a ship in orbit. Of course that means that the lab would be vulnerable to either detection while in transit to or on the planet or could be compromised and captured on the ground or with said ship.


We're talking about Manticore here, people. In other words - a nation with a medical establishment, second (and that only by a very tight margin) only to Beowulf and Mesa itself. You don't need to import your tools - you can buy or lease them locally and hide your papertrail as deep as you want.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by ldwechsler   » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:39 am

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Eagleeye wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:If you are the Alignment, you probably aren't going to want to have some agent or stooge collect a sample of DNA, SHIP IT to Mesa (or espeicialy Darius) and then send back the tailored nanite by a similar route to infect the target.

Much more likely that you have some sort of kit or mini-lab which you would have to either earlier hidden on your target's planet or in a ship in orbit. Of course that means that the lab would be vulnerable to either detection while in transit to or on the planet or could be compromised and captured on the ground or with said ship.


We're talking about Manticore here, people. In other words - a nation with a medical establishment, second (and that only by a very tight margin) only to Beowulf and Mesa itself. You don't need to import your tools - you can buy or lease them locally and hide your papertrail as deep as you want.



While doing the work on Manticore sounds good, there would be serious hassles. First, you have to have someone who really knows what's going on there. And that person can get caught.

Second, the whole process would be in danger of being known if
the lab tech was caught or, even worse, the lab was grabbed.

Third, it has to take time to program. This is based on muscle memory. For Meares, there had to be a setup that when he could grab a gun near where Honor was, it would be set off. That is different than forcing someone to crash a plane or set off a bomb.

Even worse, if the Manties got the lab, they could a) quietly bring in people from other planets to see what was done, and b) perhaps grab some MAlign DNA and play a few tricks themselves. For example, having a low level mechanic on a slave planet play with some engines or even just have some sort of transmitter inside a slaver ship.

For something that HAS to be a great secret, having it done on Manticore would probably be an unacceptable risk.
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