Can a Roland carry Marines?

kzt wrote:

Theemile wrote:
If it isn't readiness, than what is the limiting factor? 7 out of 8 Rolands have empty flag berths. All Rolands carry Pinnances. What reason is there not to haul a squad?

Its plot all the way down. David wanted the characters to do boarding action and the characters were not marines. So no marines for you.

I'm not gonna argue that, because that's SOP more cases than not. However, even if a squad was on each Roland - ther were more than enough jobs taking the 2-3 merchies and a 200,000+ person station for 40 marines and another 60-80 sailors.

Even a World War II submarine can squeeze a few extra people in at need--but you only carry extra bodies if you have a specific purpose for them. If it was certain that marines would be needed, and a Roland was the only ship that could transport them, they could be shoehorned in, I bet.
Unless there's a known need, no marines.
Manticoran marines are very specialized troops; they are both marines and fill roles on the ship at battle stations. If you can't afford to have crew detached, then don't waste that valuable marine skillset that could be put on a ship that needs it.

NHBL wrote:Even a World War II submarine can squeeze a few extra people in at need--but you only carry extra bodies if you have a specific purpose for them. If it was certain that marines would be needed, and a Roland was the only ship that could transport them, they could be shoehorned in, I bet.
Unless there's a known need, no marines.
Manticoran marines are very specialized troops; they are both marines and fill roles on the ship at battle stations. If you can't afford to have crew detached, then don't waste that valuable marine skillset that could be put on a ship that needs it.

Her Majesty's Jollies! Soldier and sailor, too.

Kipling, something about a wreck, and a drill.

In case there is any doubt about how much space the flag accommodations on a Roland have:

“There were really two reasons for the Rolands' huge size compared to other destroyers. One was the fact that they were the only destroyers in the galaxy equipped to fire the Mark 16 dual-drive missile...

“The other reason for her size (aside from the need to squeeze in magazine space for her launchers) was that every member of the class had been fitted with flagship capability. The Royal Manticoran Navy had been caught short of suitable flagships for cruiser and destroyer service during the First Havenite War, and the Rolands were also an attempt to address that shortage. Big enough and tough enough to serve with light cruisers, and with a substantial long-range punch of their own, they were also supposed to be produced in sufficient numbers to provide plenty of flag decks this time around. They weren't anywhere near as big or opulently equipped as those of a battlecruiser or a waller, but they were big enough for the job and, even more important, they'd be there when they were needed.

“Which was why Ray Chatterjee came to have such spacious comfort in which to sit while he stewed.”

kzt wrote:In case there is any doubt about how much space the flag accommodations on a Roland have:

“There were really two reasons for the Rolands' huge size compared to other destroyers. One was the fact that they were the only destroyers in the galaxy equipped to fire the Mark 16 dual-drive missile...

“The other reason for her size (aside from the need to squeeze in magazine space for her launchers) was that every member of the class had been fitted with flagship capability. The Royal Manticoran Navy had been caught short of suitable flagships for cruiser and destroyer service during the First Havenite War, and the Rolands were also an attempt to address that shortage. Big enough and tough enough to serve with light cruisers, and with a substantial long-range punch of their own, they were also supposed to be produced in sufficient numbers to provide plenty of flag decks this time around. They weren't anywhere near as big or opulently equipped as those of a battlecruiser or a waller, but they were big enough for the job and, even more important, they'd be there when they were needed.

“Which was why Ray Chatterjee came to have such spacious comfort in which to sit while he stewed.”

Yet that doesn't mean that they will carry Marines. Just about all aircraft carriers these days have Flag Quarters. Generally, there is an admiral aboard. But, occasionally not. When there is not an admiral aboard, they don't move in Marines.

Keep in mind that the marines would have to actually do things on board the Roland. Presumably there are enough crew members to do all jobs because at times there is a flag officer on board.

There has been virtually no info given by RFC about marines on board these ships.

Or did I miss something?

Just need to produce more Kamerling CL. One with Mk16's added to each squadron of Roland.

The Roland is the Medium Attack Craft with Hyperspace ability. It is not a Customs ship or a 'traditional' Tin Can. Just like a Shrike isn't your 'traditional' LAC.

A New Kamerling based DD design would be a good next ship. Half size, 16 Viper tubes per broadside (reasoning that more missile will get hits vs a couple Mk16's that will hit harder but are more likely to be intercepted) A DD with 32 Viper missiles can provide adequate defense and has a better chance of hitting a target it could consider attacking. Add 120 Marines and a couple Shrike Grasers. Make it fast add a DD Crew on a 140K ton craft, 2-4 Pinnace. Round it out with Point Defense Lasers various sizes and you have a capable DD for boarding operations. Something capable of outrunning anything big, and running down anything small.

ldwechsler wrote:Yet that doesn't mean that they will carry Marines. Just about all aircraft carriers these days have Flag Quarters. Generally, there is an admiral aboard. But, occasionally not. When there is not an admiral aboard, they don't move in Marines.

But the original question was, "CAN a Roland carry Marines," not, "Will Marines be assigned to Rolands."

Obviously, with the Flag deck a Roland can carry Marines. But they are not configured -- nor configurable -- to have Marines assigned as permanent party.

We have a "Word Of Weber" that they will not use dual purpose Flag Quarters as permanent Marine accommodations.

Weird Harold wrote:
But the original question was, "CAN a Roland carry Marines," not, "Will Marines be assigned to Rolands."

Obviously, with the Flag deck a Roland can carry Marines. But they are not configured -- nor configurable -- to have Marines assigned as permanent party.

We have a "Word Of Weber" that they will not use dual purpose Flag Quarters as permanent Marine accommodations.

The best explanation for the Roland not having Marines, is the Rolands are being assigned certain roles in the DD/CL portfolio, and are only meant to fill those roles. They are the warfighter – they have the strategic scout role. They are meant to be hazarded in forward positions.

For the rest of the DD/CL roles, the 200+ Avalons are the ship of choice. With a larger crew and a marine complement, it is the backwater patrol ship, the convoy ship, the presence ship. 20 LERM tubes are more than enough to fend off any reasonable opponent they should encounter so Mk 16s are not necessary.

If you really need marines – there are the 48 Kamerlings, with their 3 Companies of Marines each (This was the expected Marine deployment in most legacy CAs).

At the end, the only
real explanation is there really is no golden hammer which is good at all jobs. Just like a modern workshop, you pick the hammer to suite the job – You need to bang on metal, you grab a ball peen hammer. Building a house – you grab a framing hammer. the right tool (or ship) for the right job.

Weird Harold wrote:
But the original question was, "CAN a Roland carry Marines," not, "Will Marines be assigned to Rolands."

Obviously, with the Flag deck a Roland can carry Marines. But they are not configured -- nor configurable -- to have Marines assigned as permanent party.

We have a "Word Of Weber" that they will not use dual purpose Flag Quarters as permanent Marine accommodations.

So the obvious answer is yes they can. Are there 1,000,001 uses for obsolete Solly SDs? Well yes. Are any of them practical? NO. So, obviously yes one can cram a fer marines into just about anything, even Rolands. Can they take their battle armor, tribarrels, plasma rifles, etc. with them and be functional on the tin can we're squeezing them into? Well probably not. So ... why bother doing something just because we can.

pappilon wrote:
So the obvious answer is yes they can. Are there 1,000,001 uses for obsolete Solly SDs? Well yes. Are any of them practical? NO. So, obviously yes one can cram a fer marines into just about anything, even Rolands. Can they take their battle armor, tribarrels, plasma rifles, etc. with them and be functional on the tin can we're squeezing them into? Well probably not. So ... why bother doing something just because we can.

A Roland is larger than or equal to any ship on the oceans today. ANY. It is beyond absurd that they cannot fit 20 extra people in such a gigantic vessel even if one excludes changing out the flag deck for marines. There is one reason and ONLY one reason that DD ROLAND class have no marines: PLOT! And yes, we appreciate the plot twists showing action instead of the reams of passive faceless characters trotted out in an endless stream with zero emotional attachment in his latest books.

EDIT: PS an MK-16 is ~2TEU if you wish to think about a shipping container Ship to compare. By the way, modern shipping container ships hold ~20,000 TEU... A "small" one will hold 5000 and they are all being scrapped for 14,000+ TEU ships since the Panama canal got expanded.

EDIT: 2 TEU = 1 Shipping container that is most commonly used.