Stupid idea that David is going to hate.

Weird Harold wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:You're absolutely right. He would hate it.

Nah. There is no WWSNBN or new use for captured SLN crap. RFC would agree that it is stupid, but there's nothing he'd hate about the idea.

Daryl wrote:However from this idea we might consider making our pinnaces and shuttles nastier? Bigger lasers, and possibly external hard points to mount small missiles on. Still not a lot of use in a major conflict, but possibly of some use in police actions, and without needing more space.

Weird Harold wrote:

Daryl wrote:However from this idea we might consider making our pinnaces and shuttles nastier? Bigger lasers, and possibly external hard points to mount small missiles on. Still not a lot of use in a major conflict, but possibly of some use in police actions, and without needing more space.

You mean sort of like the design philosophy that produced the Havenite Cimaterre LACs? I believe the phrase used in textev was "a Pinnace Writ Large."

(FWIW Statesec attack shuttles do have hard points and mount missiles sufficient to destroy a dispatch boat.)

Nah. There is no WWSNBN or new use for captured SLN crap. RFC would agree that it is stupid, but there's nothing he'd hate about the idea.

Theemile wrote:... this one passed enough litmus tests to make it out of my head and onto .... "paper?"

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:Theemile, just how cheap could they be made? 2-1 per LAC? And what are the crewing requirements, did I miss that? And how fast can they be laid down? The SEM can't keep spending money like the junctions are spitting it out for the hell of it.

Operating in pairs with a mutual offensive/defensive doctrine could make these babies formidable.

It's not likely they're habitually going to be up against any first rate navies.

We're talking about upsized space optimized assault shuttles without any cargo capability - the vipers they would carry would probably cost more than the ship itself. Essentially this would be the biggest thing you could carry in a standard warship Boatbay berth.

These would be cheap... especially if made in bulk. I really don't know the hard costs, but one would assume ~15-20 per Shrike (without the missiles). Crew would be minimal (probably 2-4).

As you mentioned and I posted before, in number, these would be nasty to small hyperships; but even more than the LACs, these are shere attrition units, with more bark than bite. But it wouldn't even take a "warship" hit to take these out - they would be vulnerable to PDLCs and CMs, and I doubt they could even mount sidewalls - or effective ones, at any rate. Even worse, their best offensive weapon has 1/2 the range of weapons that all pirates carry.

However, most warships would probably only carry 1 of these at a time - they displace a pinnance or shuttle after all, and even CAs carry only 3. However, they could also be housed in Merchie boatbays with no mods.

The biggest problem is the Viper - it is expensive and I don't know if it will be exported. and without it, this is just a hopped up shuttle on steroids.

cthia wrote:
We're talking about upsized space optimized assault shuttles without any cargo capability - the vipers they would carry would probably cost more than the ship itself. Essentially this would be the biggest thing you could carry in a standard warship Boatbay berth.

These would be cheap... especially if made in bulk. I really don't know the hard costs, but one would assume ~15-20 per Shrike (without the missiles). Crew would be minimal (probably 2-4).

As you mentioned and I posted before, in number, these would be nasty to small hyperships; but even more than the LACs, these are shere attrition units, with more bark than bite. But it wouldn't even take a "warship" hit to take these out - they would be vulnerable to PDLCs and CMs, and I doubt they could even mount sidewalls - or effective ones, at any rate. Even worse, their best offensive weapon has 1/2 the range of weapons that all pirates carry.

However, most warships would probably only carry 1 of these at a time - they displace a pinnance or shuttle after all, and even CAs carry only 3. However, they could also be housed in Merchie boatbays with no mods.

The biggest problem is the Viper - it is expensive and I don't know if it will be exported. and without it, this is just a hopped up shuttle on steroids.

pappilon wrote:

cthia wrote:

I like the idea that so many of them can be built in lieu of a single LAC. The problem is it doesn't seem to be pH balanced. And it comes off a bit acidic. There isn't a single overarching advantage to outweigh negatives except for cost and build rates. However, that one advantage might be exploited if a system can be swarmed with these things and if their day to day operations can be made practical.


After all, any swarm of Stinger Bees is always a pain in the ass!

And then, if you're doing that, you may as well buy Moriarty for sysdef and load up with pinnaces towing pods to attack a system. If it becomes necessary or practical to deploy something small for additional convoy protection, then I suppose the mission of the FSVs could be expanded and you could have real LACs instead of a pinnace on steroids. Or just reprise the frigate.

Theemile wrote:
Against a real navy, these things are toast - yeah, they might get a few licks in, but even if 100s were engaged, against a CA or better, they are gone.

Jumbo stingships' only real advantage is against a Pirate - Pirates do want not to accept damage. they want to sneak in, and ( at worst) surprise the escort. This idea gives the feel of a multiship escort, and actually gives the smaller ships enough "teeth" to actually damage a small pirate, or intercept it's first "surprise" salvo.

They don't increase a modern navy's sight - drones will do a better job. An Awake Roland with drones will do just as good of a job as a Chanson and 1 of these. At best they are beat cops - the banging of their batons (ie their presence) keep the prowlers at bay.