How many naval personnel is there available in Talbott.

What Manticore and the Andermani divided up were the systems that were a part of the Silesian Confederacy. Marsh was an independent system who was victimized by pirates until Manticore rescued them. With Manty help in the form of the fleet base and perhaps some Manty investment, Sidemore jump started its economy and established a navy sufficient to keeping their area clear of pirates.

The relationship has been satisfactory for both sides and I doubt that either side has any interest in changing it. Sidemore's going to remain independent and retain its status as an ally of the SEM which is exactly Grayson's relationship with SEM.

Don

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Wether there are 10,000 naval personnel from the various systems in Talbott or 150,000 doesn't matter. They represent a resources that the RMN cannot afford to waste.Take all those ships and LAC's in those individual navies and mothball them after which transfer all the naval personnel in stages to Manticore and Grayson since they basically have the same training process. Do an upgrade training system where you take the Talbott servicemen and train them to as close to RMN standards as possible as quickly as possible and then deploy them to RMN and GSN ships where they will spend the next 2-3 years on the job training. Having 150,000 people trained to a lower standard in the same navy with maybe a couple of thousand RMN/GSN servicemen to ride herd on them will produce less efficient results then training those people as quickly as possible and deploying them in the RMN/GSN. One person that is below par could be Brough up to standard a lot quicker if he is surrounded by well trained and very experienced servicemen while an entire navy of servicemen with sub par training will be worse off.


Integrating those people in the RMN/GSN in stages would allow the RMN to get them trained quickly keeping them in their respective navies would not give the SEM that much more combat power against pirates and/or the SLN even if they get state of the art equipment.

PeterZ wrote: like some states in the US have a national guard.

(Bold added for emphasis)

All of the States in the United States (and DC, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands) have National Guard units (I suspect Guam does, as well). The National Guard is both a component of the reserve forces of the Army and Air Force, and the State (or Territory) Governor's quick reaction force for emergencies, civil or natural, that can not be handled by the state's civilian resources. Not every state has elected to form a State Guard or Naval Militia, to augment the state's National Guard, or to replace it's state functionality if it is federalized and deployed out of state.

I doubt that Manticore is going to let any of the Silly or local system SDFs retain control of the warships (or naval auxiliaries) under their former command, but rather take them over as forces under Sarnow's overall command with SEM officers and enlisted in at least key positions on the ships. A real question is if they leave much of the various senior Silesian ConFed Navy or local SDFs in positions of authority even without some serious considerations about who was involved in all the history of problems in lack of enforcement or aiding or abbeting things like piracy or not checking much of anything on ships & cargos.
It is walking a fine line between just dumping all the existing Silly and local system naval peorple (and flooding the market for people who might make credable pirates) and cleaning up the various services at the same time folding them into RMN and bringing them up to standards of education and training.
Establishing a 2 tiered navy is not a good idea but neither would be removing all of the actualy usefull warships that were there when 1st still dealing with a war with Haven and then the GA at war with the SL If you have competent leadership- who are NOT criminals and are willing to abide with the RMN regulations and judicial codes- then you still have a good number of working warships that should be at least worthwile in anti-piracy work and general quadrant protection. Along with seeding said ships (and the support staff/logistics) with SEM people you probably would also want to move them from their "historic" basing and patrol areas to shake things up and remove them from the usual suspects on the former home ground that might want to try something. At this point, the ConFedNavy and the local SDFs do already have existing logistic supplys for spairs and munitions so that shouldn't have to be replaced in the near term. A lot of this is presumably older SLN designed (or supplied) gear so it at least matches if not exceeds what "pirate" weapons they could expect to face. As the ships wear out or get damaged (or the mentions get expended) replace them with RMN equipment. You can transition to at least modern LAC squadrons for system defence when you can provide the LACs and basing arrangements along with training and logisitics.
Sarnow and his senior officers will just have to make the best of what is there after weeding out the problem people and bringing the rest up to speed.
One of the major problems in Silesia was government connivance and partnerships with pirates. If you remove the comfortable arrangements to profit from ingoring or actively supporting these kinds of things with local government, then things should improve. There have to be some signifcant level of competent and honest people in the various Silly forces and it would be ignoring a potential major resource to just throw everybody out if the actual problems are from a limited number.

Brigade XO wrote:I doubt that Manticore is going to let any of the Silly or local system SDFs retain control of the warships (or naval auxiliaries) under their former command, but rather take them over as forces under Sarnow's overall command with SEM officers and enlisted in at least key positions on the ships. A real question is if they leave much of the various senior Silesian ConFed Navy or local SDFs in positions of authority even without some serious considerations about who was involved in all the history of problems in lack of enforcement or aiding or abbeting things like piracy or not checking much of anything on ships & cargos.
It is walking a fine line between just dumping all the existing Silly and local system naval peorple (and flooding the market for people who might make credable pirates) and cleaning up the various services at the same time folding them into RMN and bringing them up to standards of education and training.
Establishing a 2 tiered navy is not a good idea but neither would be removing all of the actualy usefull warships that were there when 1st still dealing with a war with Haven and then the GA at war with the SL If you have competent leadership- who are NOT criminals and are willing to abide with the RMN regulations and judicial codes- then you still have a good number of working warships that should be at least worthwile in anti-piracy work and general quadrant protection. Along with seeding said ships (and the support staff/logistics) with SEM people you probably would also want to move them from their "historic" basing and patrol areas to shake things up and remove them from the usual suspects on the former home ground that might want to try something. At this point, the ConFedNavy and the local SDFs do already have existing logistic supplys for spairs and munitions so that shouldn't have to be replaced in the near term. A lot of this is presumably older SLN designed (or supplied) gear so it at least matches if not exceeds what "pirate" weapons they could expect to face. As the ships wear out or get damaged (or the mentions get expended) replace them with RMN equipment. You can transition to at least modern LAC squadrons for system defence when you can provide the LACs and basing arrangements along with training and logisitics.
Sarnow and his senior officers will just have to make the best of what is there after weeding out the problem people and bringing the rest up to speed.
One of the major problems in Silesia was government connivance and partnerships with pirates. If you remove the comfortable arrangements to profit from ingoring or actively supporting these kinds of things with local government, then things should improve. There have to be some signifcant level of competent and honest people in the various Silly forces and it would be ignoring a potential major resource to just throw everybody out if the actual problems are from a limited number.

All the confed stuff was home built, and even in 1900, it was 4th tier junk, the 75 year old legacy fleet ships the RMN has retired are far superior to their new SCN equivalents. I believe we also have either textev or a pearl stating the SCN was stood down.

Sigs wrote:Wether there are 10,000 naval personnel from the various systems in Talbott or 150,000 doesn't matter. They represent a resources that the RMN cannot afford to waste.Take all those ships and LAC's in those individual navies and mothball them after which transfer all the naval personnel in stages to Manticore and Grayson since they basically have the same training process. Do an upgrade training system where you take the Talbott servicemen and train them to as close to RMN standards as possible as quickly as possible and then deploy them to RMN and GSN ships where they will spend the next 2-3 years on the job training. Having 150,000 people trained to a lower standard in the same navy with maybe a couple of thousand RMN/GSN servicemen to ride herd on them will produce less efficient results then training those people as quickly as possible and deploying them in the RMN/GSN. One person that is below par could be Brough up to standard a lot quicker if he is surrounded by well trained and very experienced servicemen while an entire navy of servicemen with sub par training will be worse off.


Integrating those people in the RMN/GSN in stages would allow the RMN to get them trained quickly keeping them in their respective navies would not give the SEM that much more combat power against pirates and/or the SLN even if they get state of the art equipment.

I think the term is "Being phased in." we have crews trained to operate POS surplus SLN LACs. We have modern LACs and crews from Manticore arriving in system. I think the plan is to train up the existing sysdef pilots to operate the new LACs and their ground crews to maintain them, which frees up better trained (at this moment in time) Manty pilots to form up with combat units.

As replacement pilots come available, the best pilots would be given the option to join upwith RMN units. I do not think wasting a resource is at all being considered. Dame Estelle and Admiral Khumalo are not discussing squandering a vital resource but the most efficient way to utilize it.

If you go back to the Manticore Ascendant series, the RMN transfers those frigates to M-PARS "because, quite frankly, we are sick and tred of wasting resources maintaining them."

ALL obsolete junk should be stripped of recyclable parts and scrapped ASAP, which does not mean immediately. There is no gain in maintaining a fleet like the RHN (or the systems in Talbott)where people are not properly trained because they lack the basic education.

AGAIN, this is not squandering a resource. If you graph the personnel coming into service over time it will look like the basic learning curve graph- exponential at first then a more logarithmic curve later.

Brigade XO wrote:I doubt that Manticore is going to let any of the Silly or local system SDFs retain control of the warships (or naval auxiliaries) under their former command, but rather take them over as forces under Sarnow's overall command with SEM officers and enlisted in at least key positions on the ships. A real question is if they leave much of the various senior Silesian ConFed Navy or local SDFs in positions of authority even without some serious considerations about who was involved in all the history of problems in lack of enforcement or aiding or abbeting things like piracy or not checking much of anything on ships & cargos.
It is walking a fine line between just dumping all the existing Silly and local system naval peorple (and flooding the market for people who might make credable pirates) and cleaning up the various services at the same time folding them into RMN and bringing them up to standards of education and training.
Establishing a 2 tiered navy is not a good idea but neither would be removing all of the actualy usefull warships that were there when 1st still dealing with a war with Haven and then the GA at war with the SL If you have competent leadership- who are NOT criminals and are willing to abide with the RMN regulations and judicial codes- then you still have a good number of working warships that should be at least worthwile in anti-piracy work and general quadrant protection. Along with seeding said ships (and the support staff/logistics) with SEM people you probably would also want to move them from their "historic" basing and patrol areas to shake things up and remove them from the usual suspects on the former home ground that might want to try something. At this point, the ConFedNavy and the local SDFs do already have existing logistic supplys for spairs and munitions so that shouldn't have to be replaced in the near term. A lot of this is presumably older SLN designed (or supplied) gear so it at least matches if not exceeds what "pirate" weapons they could expect to face. As the ships wear out or get damaged (or the mentions get expended) replace them with RMN equipment. You can transition to at least modern LAC squadrons for system defence when you can provide the LACs and basing arrangements along with training and logisitics.
Sarnow and his senior officers will just have to make the best of what is there after weeding out the problem people and bringing the rest up to speed.
One of the major problems in Silesia was government connivance and partnerships with pirates. If you remove the comfortable arrangements to profit from ingoring or actively supporting these kinds of things with local government, then things should improve. There have to be some signifcant level of competent and honest people in the various Silly forces and it would be ignoring a potential major resource to just throw everybody out if the actual problems are from a limited number.

Theemile wrote:All the confed stuff was home built, and even in 1900, it was 4th tier junk, the 75 year old legacy fleet ships the RMN has retired are far superior to their new SCN equivalents. I believe we also have either textev or a pearl stating the SCN was stood down.

Again strip them of all recyclable parts and send em to the breakers. You do not want recidivist officers and crews absconding with warships, regardless of obsolescence. It just exacerbates the problem Sarnow was sent to stop.

And we keep getting back to "1001 uses for Obsolete SLN SDs" which was skewered by His Celeriness, Himself, Himself: Forget repurpose, reuse; just recycle. They, both the BF and SCN, obsolete and worthless [to the GA] ships should be stripped of anything recyclable then sent to the breakers, if for no other reason than to prevent them being reused as pirate ships which just have to be chased down and destroyed all over again.

Sigs wrote:Wether there are 10,000 naval personnel from the various systems in Talbott or 150,000 doesn't matter. They represent a resources that the RMN cannot afford to waste.Take all those ships and LAC's in those individual navies and mothball them after which transfer all the naval personnel in stages to Manticore and Grayson since they basically have the same training process. Do an upgrade training system where you take the Talbott servicemen and train them to as close to RMN standards as possible as quickly as possible and then deploy them to RMN and GSN ships where they will spend the next 2-3 years on the job training. Having 150,000 people trained to a lower standard in the same navy with maybe a couple of thousand RMN/GSN servicemen to ride herd on them will produce less efficient results then training those people as quickly as possible and deploying them in the RMN/GSN. One person that is below par could be Brough up to standard a lot quicker if he is surrounded by well trained and very experienced servicemen while an entire navy of servicemen with sub par training will be worse off.


Integrating those people in the RMN/GSN in stages would allow the RMN to get them trained quickly keeping them in their respective navies would not give the SEM that much more combat power against pirates and/or the SLN even if they get state of the art equipment.

Essentially this is my thought also. However, with the building yards of Grayson and Manticore rebuilding there are no spare vessels save the captured Solarian ones to train the Talbott naval personnel in. Utilizing the captured vessels as "training vessels" in now way creates a "two tier" navy in my mind as the need for trained naval personnel will be essential when the yards to come up. Utilizing the captured Solarian vessels would give up to a two year head start in their retraining ...

Fox2! wrote:

PeterZ wrote: like some states in the US have a national guard.

(Bold added for emphasis)

All of the States in the United States (and DC, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands) have National Guard units (I suspect Guam does, as well). The National Guard is both a component of the reserve forces of the Army and Air Force, and the State (or Territory) Governor's quick reaction force for emergencies, civil or natural, that can not be handled by the state's civilian resources. Not every state has elected to form a State Guard or Naval Militia, to augment the state's National Guard, or to replace it's state functionality if it is federalized and deployed out of state.

Actually all States and Commonwealth's have national guards, while Territories have territorial guard. You can also add the Territories of the Northern Marianas Islands and American Samoa. FYI the 442nd RCT "Go for Broke" is still active. It is the NG of Guam, Northern Marianas and Am Samoa.

olddatsunfan wrote: Essentially this is my thought also. However, with the building yards of Grayson and Manticore rebuilding there are no spare vessels save the captured Solarian ones to train the Talbott naval personnel in. Utilizing the captured vessels as "training vessels" in now way creates a "two tier" navy in my mind as the need for trained naval personnel will be essential when the yards to come up. Utilizing the captured Solarian vessels would give up to a two year head start in their retraining ...

Yes, I suppose the USAF can train fighter pilots on old biplanes, and teach mechanics to repair and maintain them. Unfortunately at some point, besides gaining basic flight school experience ( basic flight school) and basic mechanics knowledge (Basic High school shop class) the skills learned are worthless. and there are more than enough tenth fleet LACs and ships swanning around the Talbott sector to provide hands on experience.

I don't understand the insistence that a 1948 Dodge pick-up is the best way to train an OTR driver for his CDL driving test. Obsolete crap is obsolete crap all you get by training on obsolete crap is obsolete expericence.

Granted, you gotta learn to drive (pilot) something, but beyond your basic take off, landing , flight check, what else can you learn and how many hours does it take to learn it? At some point, probably the end of this arc Bolthole will be kicking out new GA LACs and ships since their facilities were not damaged. The new yards and fabrication platforms will be coming on line and production will resume.

You have to send trainees through basic training, basic remedial education then training yes you can give them basic gravitics and engineering training on something, anything, but why keep that junk around any longer than absolutely necessary because you have nothing else.

If you need training stuff, Cimterres are a better platform than surplus SLN LACS, and more useful because you might actually have to repair a frontline RHN LAC. especially considering the joint combat missions.