MDM light cruiser - just a Saganami-C without armor?

I said it a long time ago — for the foreseeable future, it makes no sense to build any hyper-capable combat ship smaller than the Saganami-C. For one thing, any smaller ship would have to give up too much to fit in a Streak Drive. Manticore and Haven will both be going all-out to build and refit with Streak Drives as soon as they get them figured out. The strategic advantages are too great for them not to.

How long will it take Sonya and Shannon to develop the even faster Super-Streak Drive?
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Sonya Hemphill and Shannon Foraker, working together.
The galaxy waits in anticipation and terror.

Imaginos1892 wrote:I said it a long time ago — for the foreseeable future, it makes no sense to build any hyper-capable combat ship smaller than the Saganami-C. For one thing, any smaller ship would have to give up too much to fit in a Streak Drive..

Hyperdrive takes up little space... While it adds volume/power requirements, it is not a very big slice of the pie. After all the MALIGN was getting their streak drive into a standard DB...

The real reason for increased size is the massive increase in Missile Laser Head power throughput and for more numerous/larger active defense systems.

Relax wrote:Hyperdrive takes up little space... While it adds volume/power requirements, it is not a very big slice of the pie. After all the MALIGN was getting their streak drive into a standard DB...

I recall from 'somewhere' that their Streak Drive dispatch boats were very NONstandard, like almost twice as big. A Streak Drive is much bigger than a standard hyper generator, and a dispatch boat is essentially a hull wrapped around a hyper generator and impeller drive. With a little space grudgingly allowed for the crew.
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The best thing about virginity is, it’s so easy to cure.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

Relax wrote:Hyperdrive takes up little space... While it adds volume/power requirements, it is not a very big slice of the pie. After all the MALIGN was getting their streak drive into a standard DB...

I recall from 'somewhere' that their Streak Drive dispatch boats were very NONstandard, like almost twice as big. A Streak Drive is much bigger than a standard hyper generator, and a dispatch boat is essentially a hull wrapped around a hyper generator and impeller drive. With a little space grudgingly allowed for the crew.
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The best thing about virginity is, it’s so easy to cure.

From the outside they are standard DBs, however if you boarded them and did a detailed inspection, anyone who knew hardware would notice the increase in the size of the hyperdrive.

And all DBs aren't made equal - We've seen the 37 Kton Havenite Fracture, that was a minimalist mail design, and the 48Kton Star Falcon that is a corporate DB with light passenger liner/express package hauler capabilities.

It's easy to lose a few Ktons of hardware in a 25% tonnage difference between models.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

Relax wrote:Hyperdrive takes up little space... While it adds volume/power requirements, it is not a very big slice of the pie. After all the MALIGN was getting their streak drive into a standard DB...

I recall from 'somewhere' that their Streak Drive dispatch boats were very NONstandard, like almost twice as big. A Streak Drive is much bigger than a standard hyper generator, and a dispatch boat is essentially a hull wrapped around a hyper generator and impeller drive. With a little space grudgingly allowed for the crew.

The streak drive "had almost doubled the size of conventional hyper generators" [MoH] but, while I can't find the quote, I though the dispatch boat could pass, on external inspection, for a fast yacht - enlarged a bit for more passanger comfort than a pure dispatch boat. So I was thinking less than a 33% volume increase for nearly double the hypergenerator volume.


I do wish I could come up with right keywords to dig up the description of the streak boat's size...

Yup: All we know is that the hypergenerator itself is twice as large. Whatever that means... What percentage of the ~15% of hull volume(each end) dedicated to impeller/fusion/compensator/W-sail/Hypergenerator is the Hypergenerator is well.... Go figure.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

Relax wrote:Hyperdrive takes up little space... While it adds volume/power requirements, it is not a very big slice of the pie. After all the MALIGN was getting their streak drive into a standard DB...

I recall from 'somewhere' that their Streak Drive dispatch boats were very NONstandard, like almost twice as big. A Streak Drive is much bigger than a standard hyper generator, and a dispatch boat is essentially a hull wrapped around a hyper generator and impeller drive. With a little space grudgingly allowed for the crew.
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The best thing about virginity is, it’s so easy to cure.

I suspect a standard mil-spec hyper generator is a fixed size across all classes. Something like 10,000 tons. Whilst it would be a big chunk of a 50,000-ton ship, even doubling that is trivial to a 2MT BC or 8MT SD.

Basically, it has a minimum size and the translation field effect from that minimum size is more than adequate to allow a BC to translate itself and a number of LACs safely, thus no need to upscale them proportionately, like the reactors or impeller rings are.

Imaginos1892 wrote:I said it a long time ago — for the foreseeable future, it makes no sense to build any hyper-capable combat ship smaller than the Saganami-C.

I think if you looked for them, you'd find some posts from RFC echoing this view, saying that his (and the RMN's) thinking had evolved from the 300Kton 'notional destroyer' idea, and he was (at least then) thinking that Sag-C range is probably the bottom end for a hyper-capable warship in the long run. Until the next round of paradigm-shifting tech, anyway.

Imaginos1892 wrote:How long will it take Sonya and Shannon to develop the even faster Super-Streak Drive?

Simoes was already working on that before he defected, so one presumes they've got a good head start ...

Perhaps I am confused by the term Fleet Scouting. If what your are going to mean is going into systems and using LACs instead of DDs to sift through the volume for ships, weapons, and other things of interest, then no, you don't need DD in that role. You will, however, need some what/tactical plan to recover said LACs if you don't get to stay in the system.

LACs are now being used as a major component of Fleet (as in Wall of Battle) anti-missile defence and clearly the risk/reward for more platforms with lower potential loss of life is there. On the other hand, just how far forward or elcewhere around a formation (Wall, Task Group, Flotilla) can LACs spread out and remain effective.
One thing a LAC can't do is function as a communications/tactical link between ships in normal space and ships waiting in hyper. We have seen that multiple times. We have also seen using DDs as long range scout/pickets watching systems and running drones through them for information. Not something you can do with LACs thought CLs or CAs would be suitable. The question is numbers of hyper-capable units.

Brigade XO wrote:Perhaps I am confused by the term Fleet Scouting. If what your are going to mean is going into systems and using LACs instead of DDs to sift through the volume for ships, weapons, and other things of interest, then no, you don't need DD in that role. You will, however, need some what/tactical plan to recover said LACs if you don't get to stay in the system.

LACs are now being used as a major component of Fleet (as in Wall of Battle) anti-missile defence and clearly the risk/reward for more platforms with lower potential loss of life is there. On the other hand, just how far forward or elcewhere around a formation (Wall, Task Group, Flotilla) can LACs spread out and remain effective.
One thing a LAC can't do is function as a communications/tactical link between ships in normal space and ships waiting in hyper. We have seen that multiple times. We have also seen using DDs as long range scout/pickets watching systems and running drones through them for information. Not something you can do with LACs thought CLs or CAs would be suitable. The question is numbers of hyper-capable units.

I think the earlier poster was using Fleet Scout to mean in-system scouting for people sneaking up on the fleet; since it was combined with anti-missile screen. Though for the RMN the mind boggling improvements in recon drone endurance mean those have largely taken over that 'check for ambushes' roll.
Haven, at least as of Thunderbolt, uses LACs as RD controllers and to FTL the drone's take back to the fleet. But that was mostly because they couldn't get a useful FTL transceiver into an RD


I believe long range scout/pickets watching systems (such as for pre-attack intelligence) would fall under the post's strategist scout role - a DD slips in, sends ghostrider RDs around to check things out and then runs back to the main fleet with details. (Or one does while others remain to provide a final update once the fleet arrives). LACs can't do that, since they don't carry RDs and you need another ship to carry them.

(Though I suppose in certain situations, you might in desperation attach a LAC and a few ghost rider drones to a legit merchant ship heading to a system of interest. Let them slip away and monitor the system until the fleet shows up - at which time the LAC and drones can get picked up by a CLAC. But you'd have to have a damned good reason to do that rather than sending a DD which could slip away if the need arose)

But you're right, the Paul Revere style relay is a DD role that that post omitted. Still like strategic scout it's not a role that requires DDs to stand with fleets during battle - you need them, but maybe not as many as when they also had a more direct role in clashes between wallers.