Robots in the honorverse

It is funny reading this. I thought for sure that the dates would have started with a 19 but it seems people really don't know what technology exists now.

As For why robotic AI tech is not in the Books, RFC's choice, simple as that.

Most people don't know a 1/10th of what technology exists right now. Some of the latest technology that DARPA is bringing out right now, publicly. The VAPR program for instance takes solid systems computer circuit boards mostly and turns them into clouds of vapor like magic.

AI exists right now. AI for most real systems is not based on Expert Systems, that was 25 years ago. AI now is Neural based. Drones at DARPA are undergoing Swarm technology and utilization, plus automation flight tech that takes over when drones lose their signal.

A Similar to the VAPR program is a System called DAEDALUS it is a glider that delivers cargo then just vanishes.

Think of bombs or Cruise Missiles that disappear just before they hit the target or just after they go off. All that is left is the blast.

Lord Skimper wrote:It is funny reading this. I thought for sure that the dates would have started with a 19 but it seems people really don't know what technology exists now.

As For why robotic AI tech is not in the Books, RFC's choice, simple as that.

Most people don't know a 1/10th of what technology exists right now. Some of the latest technology that DARPA is bringing out right now, publicly. The VAPR program for instance takes solid systems computer circuit boards mostly and turns them into clouds of vapor like magic.

AI exists right now. AI for most real systems is not based on Expert Systems, that was 25 years ago. AI now is Neural based. Drones at DARPA are undergoing Swarm technology and utilization, plus automation flight tech that takes over when drones lose their signal.

A Similar to the VAPR program is a System called DAEDALUS it is a glider that delivers cargo then just vanishes.

Think of bombs or Cruise Missiles that disappear just before they hit the target or just after they go off. All that is left is the blast.

A couple of points:

The whole series started 25 years ago. That's when the Honorverse was created. We didn't have much AI at all or much in the way of robots...well, some but not all that pervasive.

RFC based the navy, etc., on that. It's not all that easy to change. A lot of what we call AI, etc., is sort of invisible.
With one officer controlling hundreds of missiles, computer guidance is required and the AI does that. But it's more or less invisible. Sort of like my Windows operating system is (until it messes up AGAIN).

So we won't see much of the inner workings of a lot of the tech.

As for robots, I would guess they're around but they just don't say all that much. I have the feeling that they are just not identifiable as robots. A lot of equipment that can be run by people and AI would probably be required in building and repairing ships. OK, so there's no R2D2 but there are probably robotic arms to get pallets of supplies into ships, etc.

I'm not sure just what true AI would amount to, perhaps autonomy, ability to set its own goals, etc.

But I'm pretty sure we aren't even remotely close to it at this point. AI would go far beyond a computer program no matter how sophisticated.

I suspect that Duhak put his finger on it when it stated that it had become aware that it was now possible for it to violate its own basic imperatives.

Don

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n7axw wrote:I'm not sure just what true AI would amount to, perhaps autonomy, ability to set its own goals, etc.

But I'm pretty sure we aren't even remotely close to it at this point. AI would go far beyond a computer program no matter how sophisticated.

I suspect that Duhak put his finger on it when it stated that it had become aware that it was now possible for it to violate its own basic imperatives.

Don

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For me Metacognition (Thinking about thinking) would be a good place to start.

We must be careful of what we call "True A.I." Think of the Olympic scoring system. Give all 9.9's that you want. But don't give a 10.0 until there is a 10. Perhaps a Bo Derek that tells you "I don't want to have sex with you because I am not an object and you don't own me." If that was not programmed in, then, Voila! It's alive! LOL

Emotion. That is the key. The human element strikes yet again. Data wanted to be human. Data wanted to cry. To laugh. To feel pain. Emotion leads to loneliness, to wanting to know "Who am I." True A.I. will ask the same existential questions that man asks. True Artificial Intelligence is indeed alive. Anything else is merely following a super-canned program. Even if the program rewrites its own code, it rewrites that code...

[Entscheidung]← between points →[Incompleteness theorems]


The human brain does not have these limitations. A True A.I. can indeed write its own proofs. It knows mathematical truth! It will not continue dividing all the ones by all of the threes in life.

Steven Spielberg's rendition of Stanley Kubrick's A.I does a fine job coming close to portraying a True A.I.

Johnny 5's programming was short circuited, crossing wires, and it became alive!

A true A.I. would no longer function to be what its creator wants it to be (reminds you of anyone?) it will indeed want, demand, the same "free will" that God gave man.

True Artificial Intelligence is what gives Commander Data the right to be judged as a sentient being.

Of course at some point man will have to redefine the "artificial" in "artificial intelligence." Sentience is never artificial.

Which denotes a caution. Man doesn't even have a proper label for this which he strives. Perhaps because man doesn't realize its quest to create life. To be the God that he may not even believe in himself.

I truly believe that the Entscheidungsproblem the halting problem and Gödel's incompleteness theorems were intentional cutouts emplaced to prevent man from destroying himself.

I can imagine God saying "HALT! You do not want to go there. Kids are unruly. They think they know it all. They'll simply shoot your eyes out. Read the fine print of that which you seek to create."

WE ARE THE COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC SAFETY. GOODBYE CITIZEN HUMANS

Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

cthia wrote:Of course at some point man will have to redefine the "artificial" in "artificial intelligence." Sentience is never artificial.

Which denotes a caution. Man doesn't even have a proper label for this which he strives. Perhaps because man doesn't realize its quest to create life. To be the God that he may not even believe in himself.

I truly believe that the Entscheidungsproblem the halting problem and Gödel's incompleteness theorems were intentional cutouts emplaced to prevent man from destroying himself.

I can imagine God saying "HALT! You do not want to go there. Kids are unruly. They think they know it all. They'll simply shoot your eyes out. Read the fine print of that which you seek to create."

WE ARE THE COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC SAFETY. GOODBYE CITIZEN HUMANS

Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Wow! Perhaps all of this explains why RFC did not deal much with AI and robots. It becomes a different story.

As I wrote far earlier in this topic, too much AI, etc., changes the story. Instead of treecat Nimitz, we could have robot Nimitz. I prefer him the way he is.

And I would guess that a lot of the advances made will be more or less invisible to the average person. As I have also noted, there is no way much of the battle action could be run on the fly by humans. With thousands of missiles flying around, there are programs in place to handle the details.

The Tac officer basically points to a target and orders it hit. The missiles head for it. They are set to do all sorts of tricks along the way based on different parameters and then head for the targets.

It's like one of the vid games we play now. Point and shoot. The computer sets up the rest. As computers advance, the games get more realistic and exciting. But the guts of it are getting better and just about none of the players understands how that is happening.

So RFC kept that part of the tech out of things. Makes the stories better.

ldwechsler wrote: Wow! Perhaps all of this explains why RFC did not deal much with AI and robots. It becomes a different story.

As I wrote far earlier in this topic, too much AI, etc., changes the story. Instead of treecat Nimitz, we could have robot Nimitz. I prefer him the way he is.

Which would make robot Farragut, et al ... verrry interesting (r's rolled apropriately)

ldwechsler wrote:Wow! Perhaps all of this explains why RFC did not deal much with AI and robots. It becomes a different story.

And a story he'd done already in other books.

I recall RFC saying he specifically omitted sentient AI from the Honorverse to help differentiate it from his other worlds.

Jonathan_S wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:Wow! Perhaps all of this explains why RFC did not deal much with AI and robots. It becomes a different story.

And a story he'd done already in other books.

I recall RFC saying he specifically omitted sentient AI from the Honorverse to help differentiate it from his other worlds.

Many people simply fail to comprehend what awaits at the end of the A.I. rainbow. Or who. Pandora is already there.

If achievable, the method of arriving at the end of that rainbow is much less important than the question of survival once there.

We really might want Pandora to keep her pretty rainbow-colored panties pulled up over her box. We really don't want to be screwed by Pandora at the end of her rainbow.