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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:31 pm

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roseandheather wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Nonsense! Estelle Matsuko and Stephen Westman


....what drugs are you on and where can i get some

but more to the point

what drugs are you on

Re-reading the Honorverse, what else? Seriously, Baroness Madusa needs someone just as smart as she is with a different way of looking at the world. It would help if her partner would also not take himself so seriously. Just consider her Intel weenie. He is smart as a ack but has a very different way of looking at things. Estelle is comfortable with that sort of difference. Augustus is just not different enough to hold her attention. This woman went to ride herd on Madusans for heaven sake!

He finds a person that captures the essence of Bernardus' wife, a no nonsense woman not afraid of anything. She brings a wealth of experience and challenges him when he flies off on a personal fancy. Despite that those fancies are a constant source novelty for Estelle.

Sorry but Augustus is simply too mundane for Estelle.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Mobryan   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:59 pm

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saber964 wrote:
Thandi and Victor


The child of Shiva, sired by Loki???

The world waits with bated breath (and a huge insurance policy...)


Matt
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:31 pm

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Oh, and btw, Rose, Werner Caslet will end up with Shannon. He was the person who let Shannon begin to really stretch professionally. I suspect he recommended Shannon going to Lester's staff. He wanted her to grow but I would be surprised if he didn't also want her outside his chain of command.

One of the things I really hope to read about is those two getting together, even if it's described in passing. One hopes that Werner commands one of the ships taking the GSN and RMN mission to Bolthole.

As to the Beowulfian contribution to the ne t generation Honorverse heroes, That's why I suggested a second child from Honor that requires Allison's skills. Honor is the scion of the Benton-Ramirez y Chou family. They are the anti-Detweiler standard bearer, the are the epitome of the Beowulfian code and the family the MAlign views as the personification of every slight heaped upon them by the universe. The family line that makes it personal for all MAlign members. Raoul is a chance generated child, the Alexander-Harrington/Harrington-Alexanders' next child may well have three genetic contributors requiring the skills of a Benton-Ramirez y Chou of the classic Beowulfan mold. Such a child is a true Beowulfian as far as the MAlign is concerned.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:35 am

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roseandheather wrote:
snip...

And then, of course, we'd need a scientific genius for the GA - I think Sonja and Shannon's progeny would fit the bill superbly, don't you? :twisted:
snip



With a contribution from Simoes(sp)
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by roseandheather   » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:29 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Re-reading the Honorverse, what else? Seriously, Baroness Madusa needs someone just as smart as she is with a different way of looking at the world. It would help if her partner would also not take himself so seriously. Just consider her Intel weenie. He is smart as a ack but has a very different way of looking at things. Estelle is comfortable with that sort of difference. Augustus is just not different enough to hold her attention. This woman went to ride herd on Madusans for heaven sake!

He finds a person that captures the essence of Bernardus' wife, a no nonsense woman not afraid of anything. She brings a wealth of experience and challenges him when he flies off on a personal fancy. Despite that those fancies are a constant source novelty for Estelle.

Sorry but Augustus is simply too mundane for Estelle.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're adorable.

I love Stephen Westman, but he is not meant for Estelle. For one thing, he's still not over Suzanne Bannister. For another, Estelle needs a partner - an equal, someone she can rely on, who understands what she's going through and what responsibilities are on her shoulders. She deals with enough nuttery every day - she doesn't need it in a romantic partner, too. Augustus is steady, kind, someone she can count on to have her back, and someone who gets the position she's in. He's someone she can come home to at night and just be Estelle.

Stephen deserves some romance, but Estelle sure ain't it. (Now, as for Samiha Lababibi... that is another matter entirely. :mrgreen: )
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:38 pm

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roseandheather wrote:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're adorable.

I love Stephen Westman, but he is not meant for Estelle. For one thing, he's still not over Suzanne Bannister. For another, Estelle needs a partner - an equal, someone she can rely on, who understands what she's going through and what responsibilities are on her shoulders. She deals with enough nuttery every day - she doesn't need it in a romantic partner, too. Augustus is steady, kind, someone she can count on to have her back, and someone who gets the position she's in. He's someone she can come home to at night and just be Estelle.

Stephen deserves some romance, but Estelle sure ain't it. (Now, as for Samiha Lababibi... that is another matter entirely. :mrgreen: )


Ah, mon petit chou, Samiha is perfect for Augustus!

Both of them have been challenged in fundamental ways. Their preconceptions and yes, even self images have been held before a very revealing mirror. Neither liked what they saw and both decided to become what they believed they SHOULD be. Not everyone can face that sort of personal turmoil and embrace it enough to become better people. Both of these individuals did. Samiha responded to Norbradt with a reflex driven by her elitists views. When pressed to consider what those views would force upon her and all those that relied on her, she chose to abandon her world view and embrace the antithesis of that view.

Augustus did the same thing. His Conservative world view did not prepare him for the sorts of sacrifice Sir Aivars decision to attack Monica demanded of him. Regardless he abandoned that view and embraced his responsibility.

That sort of insight and internal change is rare and precious few understand the impact upon one's self. Samiha and Augustus do understand and can use that understanding to build upon their future together. It certainly helps that both are from elitists background, regardless of whether such a PoV remains central to their worldviews.

As for Stephen and Estelle, it goes without saying that each would want to be with someone who can fully accept the other. My point is that for both of them that means a certain degree of challenging the other and being challenged. Both are strong personalities that can and will steamroll other people who are not equipped to deal with that sort of strong personality. Accepting the other is accepting the other's force of will AND being happy to have it to react to.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:47 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
roseandheather wrote:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're adorable.

I love Stephen Westman, but he is not meant for Estelle. For one thing, he's still not over Suzanne Bannister. For another, Estelle needs a partner - an equal, someone she can rely on, who understands what she's going through and what responsibilities are on her shoulders. She deals with enough nuttery every day - she doesn't need it in a romantic partner, too. Augustus is steady, kind, someone she can count on to have her back, and someone who gets the position she's in. He's someone she can come home to at night and just be Estelle.


Let's get real. This matchmaking is getting a bit nuts. We don't even know if a lot of these people are married. We don't know marital status or sexual interest in most characters. Is Hamish's brother, the Prime Minister, married? Is Westman? Matsuko?

But there is a push to tie up everything. This is not a Hallmark Romance! (For those not in America, the Hallmark TV channel puts on a lot of romance stories and they always end happily). Yes, it would be nice to see Abigail married or at least in love. And how about Cardones? Actually, Abigail and Oversteegan might be interesting in a few years. Why not Eloise and Theisman?

Let it be. For a complete list of future events, either RFC should put in an epilogue that describes the future or all of them or we can wait until the next arc, a number of years down the road and find out at least about some of them.

If we keep on with romances, we won't have any battles or even dastardly plots. And, yes, a child of Victor with Thandi would be interesting. And why not another little Zilwicki?

Stephen deserves some romance, but Estelle sure ain't it. (Now, as for Samiha Lababibi... that is another matter entirely. :mrgreen: )


Ah, mon petit chou, Samiha is perfect for Augustus!

Both of them have been challenged in fundamental ways. Their preconceptions and yes, even self images have been held before a very revealing mirror. Neither liked what they saw and both decided to become what they believed they SHOULD be. Not everyone can face that sort of personal turmoil and embrace it enough to become better people. Both of these individuals did. Samiha responded to Norbradt with a reflex driven by her elitists views. When pressed to consider what those views would force upon her and all those that relied on her, she chose to abandon her world view and embrace the antithesis of that view.

Augustus did the same thing. His Conservative world view did not prepare him for the sorts of sacrifice Sir Aivars decision to attack Monica demanded of him. Regardless he abandoned that view and embraced his responsibility.

That sort of insight and internal change is rare and precious few understand the impact upon one's self. Samiha and Augustus do understand and can use that understanding to build upon their future together. It certainly helps that both are from elitists background, regardless of whether such a PoV remains central to their worldviews.

As for Stephen and Estelle, it goes without saying that each would want to be with someone who can fully accept the other. My point is that for both of them that means a certain degree of challenging the other and being challenged. Both are strong personalities that can and will steamroll other people who are not equipped to deal with that sort of strong personality. Accepting the other is accepting the other's force of will AND being happy to have it to react to.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by n7axw   » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:34 pm

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I'm wondering if it has occurred to any of you that at least some of these folks you are so busily setting up might have other commitments... Just wondering :?:

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by roseandheather   » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:45 pm

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n7axw wrote:I'm wondering if it has occurred to any of you that at least some of these folks you are so busily setting up might have other commitments... Just wondering :?:

Don

-


Hamish Alexander also had other commitments, in case you've forgotten. :twisted: :lol:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:30 am

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Hi cythia,

Besides all the other evidence others have presented regarding why the genetic slaves on Darius don't have kill switches [and 10% of a billion would be 100 million killed not ten] I'll just reiterate that a genetic slave uprising or rebellion aren't going to happen because the genetic slaves are fully protected by laws that are enforced, they actually live better than most humans and [very important] have won the respect of their star-line supervisors for their skill and hard work; quite aside from the fact they believe in the MAlign, so they are building the future they fervently believe is right for the rest of the universe, 1000%.

So they have very little to quibble about, and Jeremy would find it very hard to find any kind supporters who wouldn't kill him first before contacting the authorities.

Reading SoV might answer some of your questions.

The problem of Darius is intended to be quite a different one I'm afraid.

Given how wonderful it is, how much everyone there deeply believes in the wonderful MAlign plan for humanity, what happens when it is eventually discovered?

I've been afraid ever since RFC shared those decent details with us that our favorite Honor as I've mentioned before, that HA-H would find herself having to commit a horrendous EE violation [or perhaps more accurately executing the punishment for so many many EE violations] to save the rest of civilization [remember that the industrialized Maya sector will be critical to the good guys eventual victory, because the rest has been trashed], ie destroy the whole planet and solar system population because she can't leave them alone to destroy so much of what's left of humanity again, there are too many to ship out even if exiling them were an option, they are so committed to the MAlign they don't believe anything she tells them contrary to what they want to believe etc.

She can't civilize them, and she can't leave them alone, so what's left?

The terrible decision may kill her, whatever the majority of surviving humans that agrees with her decision, simply never ever again.

I hope such a scenario turns out to only be a nightmare, and that Hamish can comfort and cuddle her, but I fear that great moral dilemma is headed for someone, perhaps Abigail or her children.

Granted a blockade might work if the survivors can afford it, blockades being rather expensive, but I doubt the survivors are going to let any such thoroughly indoctrinated MAlign planet they catch live.

Very interesting, very sad times indeed.

L


cthia wrote:For the most part, I generally agree with everyones assessment as well.

We could be underestimating how many people may have the protocols though. I always personally entertained the thought that the MAlign gave the protocols to everyone outside the Onion, however delaying activation of protocols until needed. I wonder if the time-limited nature could, would, be attributed to, or become a factor only after activation, if the notion of administering - yet delaying activation is possible. The MAlign has been shown to be very paranoid, or cautious. Or both. Making me to believe that they wouldn't take any chances with information being discussed by anyone, outside the Onion. Accidentally losing too many people would seem to be less of a disaster than losing too much information. In light of the easy way there is to grow the people and having centuries at best and decades at least, to do so. If needed.

Also, since Simoes, there could be sweeping (no pun intended) changes made. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

As far as my thoughts on Darius, I only thought the protocols would be given to everyone on planet in case there was an uprising. Since Jeremy X and a few others have shown what their tailored type of (conformance :roll:) can deliver.

If everyone on planet has not been given the protocols on general purpose, then I'd surely like the thought of Jeremy finding his way back to Darius and riling the natives.

In case everyone hasn't made the connection, the protocols are a sure way to kill an uprising quickly, whether in or out of compliance of intended protocol safeties. The kill switch could serve double duties where the natives are in force.

Oh! And if the protocols are administered to everyone, it would make it far easier to keep track of any missing, escaped or abducted people, giving it triple duties. Affording the MA far more bang for their bucking troubles.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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