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The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.

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The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by HonorableFan   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:23 pm

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I believe that for all of the various plot lines and people that the core question of of this Series is, how does a genius & ultimately resourceful character, like Honor Harrington shape events and the Universe around her by her character.
She is the ultimate "Great Man\Woman" of this civilization. Honor Harrington must do one thing, address the lies and 'vile, calumny' that Malign has created as a smoke screen for it's withdrawal from Mesa.
This series can not end without Honor 'clearing the good name' of Manicore. Period, every thing else is optional.
But not that.
The fight is between her reputation, as demonstrated by her actions in this whole series and authentic "Fake News" that Malign is spreading.
Thanks for all of the enjoyment that I've gotten from this Forum, (and of course the part contributed by RFC).
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by kzt   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:26 pm

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Pretty hard when it is the fault of Manticore. Who are you planning on pinning Green Pines on?
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by n7axw   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:05 pm

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kzt wrote:Pretty hard when it is the fault of Manticore. Who are you planning on pinning Green Pines on?


Zilwicke and the seccys actually involved were not acting under either the direction or the supervision of Manticore. Therefore what happened was not Manticore's doing. I agree that on the surface, the appearance is not good. But in reality Manticore had nothing to do with Zilwicke's mission.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:20 pm

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n7axw wrote:
kzt wrote:Pretty hard when it is the fault of Manticore. Who are you planning on pinning Green Pines on?


Zilwicke and the seccys actually involved were not acting under either the direction or the supervision of Manticore. Therefore what happened was not Manticore's doing. I agree that on the surface, the appearance is not good. But in reality Manticore had nothing to do with Zilwicke's mission.

Don

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There were two explosions. One was done by a Mesan security officer and the other by a disaffected seccie, native of Mesa.

Cachat and Zilwicki were beneficiaries of the first but did not do it and were not in any way responsible for the second.
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by kzt   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:10 pm

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n7axw wrote:
kzt wrote:Pretty hard when it is the fault of Manticore. Who are you planning on pinning Green Pines on?


Zilwicke and the seccys actually involved were not acting under either the direction or the supervision of Manticore. Therefore what happened was not Manticore's doing. I agree that on the surface, the appearance is not good. But in reality Manticore had nothing to do with Zilwicke's mission.

Ok, so they should be arrested and executed for mass murder?
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by JohnRoth   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:04 pm

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Let's look at this a bit.

Anton Zilwiki - a private Manticoran citizen who has been acting as an intelligence advisor to the government of Torch.

Victor Cachet - an official Republic of Haven intelligence operative (currently the sector manager), who has been also acting as an intelligence advisor to the government of Torch, operating on his own authority.

Yana T. - A Torch citizen, formerly part of Queen Berry's bodyguard, with a personal grudge.

Princess Ruth: a member of the Manticoran royal family with no official authority acting as an unofficial liaison to the government of Torch.

Audubon Ballroom - gives the team some contacts on Mesa.

Mesan revolutionary cell: homegrown terrorists.

So who's responsible?

The Manticoran government has no knowledge of the action - neither Anton Zilwiki nor Princess Ruth told anyone.

The operation was sanctioned and facilitated by the government of Torch and the Audubon Ballroom.

The operation was planned and carried out by a member of the Republic of Haven's intelligence service, without official sanction, operating on his own authority.

One of the three explosions was deliberately planned and executed as a contingency plan to cover the intelligence team's escape.

A second explosion (the Gamma Center) was the direct result of the team suborning one of the MAlign's senior security officers.

The third (Green Pines) was the result of the intelligence team removing the beacon on a commercial construction bomb in the hands of one of the local revolutionary cell.

Now ...

What one entity is responsible for this entire mess?
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by JohnRoth   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:07 pm

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To comment on HonorableFan's comment.

Isn't going to happen. We have Word of God (or at least Word of Weber) that this arc will end with Manticore's status being ambiguous, and Manticore and allies being the only ones that believe in this Mesan Alignment nonsense.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Pull up a chair and have an Old Tillman.
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by kzt   » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:04 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
What one entity is responsible for this entire mess?

Either it’s an act of war by Manticore (and an edict violation) or it’s mass murder by a Manticoran and Haven citizen. It’s well known by Manticre and Haven as to what happened and their citizens responsibility in giving an undetectable WMD to a known nutcase. Have they issued the arrest and extradition warrants yet? Or is it the official Manticoran and Haven position that unless you murder 10,000 or more people at once it isn’t a crime?
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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by pappilon   » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:26 am

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JohnRoth wrote:What one entity is responsible for this entire mess?



kzt wrote:Either it’s an act of war by Manticore (and an edict violation) or it’s mass murder by a Manticoran and Haven citizen. It’s well known by Manticre and Haven as to what happened and their citizens responsibility in giving an undetectable WMD to a known nutcase. Have they issued the arrest and extradition warrants yet? Or is it the official Manticoran and Haven position that unless you murder 10,000 or more people at once it isn’t a crime?



It can't be an EE Edict violation since neither Zilwicki nor Cachat had warships in orbit around Mesa at the time. There was no military engagement of MSDF at the time.

2) Since the incident occurred on Mesa, it would be up to Mesa to file charges. They thought Zilwicki was dead, so could not then (end of SOV)press charges.

3) All Manticore could do was hold an inquiry. Not sure how that would work since he was acting as the head of Intelligence for Torch at the time. So not really falling under Manty jurisdiction. Torch [IIRC] had declared war on Mesa. so could, like the Ballroom, declare it one of those acts of asymmetrcal warfare. Looks bad to the international community that (1)Manticore would use such an ... obvious smokescreen and (2) Torch would stoop to Ballroom tactics, thus negating in the public's mind that Torch is anymore than a front for an unreformed Ballroom.

Yes there will be public SL outcry for whatever and Manticore can protest its innocence in vain forever, it has no legal recourse against Cachat's activities, and only dubious ones against Zilwicki.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: The only thing that MUST happen in Uncompromising Honor.
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:55 am

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kzt wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:
What one entity is responsible for this entire mess?

Either it’s an act of war by Manticore (and an edict violation) or it’s mass murder by a Manticoran and Haven citizen.


Actually, it is an Act of War by Torch intelligence operatives. Torch has in fact Declared War on Mesa and Cauldron of Ghosts continues the "acts of war" by Torch's intelligence operatives and commander-in-chief of Torch's military.

All Manticore has to do is throw Torch (and the Seccies) "under the bus" and denounce the way it is conducting the war against Mesa.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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