Honor's grandparent(s)

Doubtful at best. When they could've been seeded as a MAling spy the SKM was a galactic backwater it's only been in the last century or so that the SKM has risen to prominence. It would be the RW equivalent of what Japan did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

munroburton wrote:
I find the possibility intriguing. I agree that the primary Harrington lineage is probably not directly descended from a lost Mesan lineage... but what about Alfred's mother? Or anyone who married a Harrington over the centuries, I suppose. They don't reproduce by binary fission, you know!

It would be a nice bit of irony if an accidental Meyerdahl-Alignment crossing had created the "telempathy gene," given the Alignment's failure to accomplish anything with the treecat they kidnapped. Also, given what Honor did(and what Raoul will probably do), hoisted by their own petard!

Possible, I suppose. But remember that family is vehemently anti Manpower and by extension all things Mesan. I'm sure that either Honor or her dad would be mortified to discover a long lost alpha line link.

Don

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n7axw wrote:The direct answer to the question is no.

To expand a bit, the alpha, beta, and gamma lines are Mesan categories (or Alignment) into which they grouped the results of their own modifications.

Not all modifying has been Mesan. In fact there was gene modifying going on before Leonard Detweiller happened by and got himself in a huff and went off to Mesa.

Both the Meyerdahl and the Winton mods fall into that category, iirc. Honor is the direct descendant of immigrants who immigrated from Meyerdahl to Sphinx.

Usually the best sources for this sort of info is in the books. The YA series tells the story of Stephanie Harrington and Lyonheart. A delightful read.

Also, RFC has recently commented on this in another thread on the forum.

Don

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To further expand this, The Beowulf Life Code was developed in the aftermath of Earth's Final War around 950 PD. About 500 years later, Leonard Detweiler was fed up with the restrictions of the code, founding the MAlign around ~1450 PD.

The Harringtons came to Manticore in 1517 PD from Meyerdahl. They had the First Wave Meyerdahl gene modification. (Specifically Meyerdahl-Beta, as there were 4 modifications).

That modification was done on the first wave in ~500 PD. As such the genie mods on the Harrington Clan are older than the League, and even before it was known that Manticore had planets.

As to a later marry in. It's possible but unlikely. Stephanie Harrington adopted Lionheart/Climbs Quickly within a year of arriving on Manticore. Stephanie is the major force behind Treecat rights, and stops several researches into Treecats

After that, the Harrington Clan had a long history with Treecats, and have the highest adoption rate.

Since the cats can sense human intent, a long term sinister plan to take over the clan is unlikely.

feyhunde wrote:

n7axw wrote:The direct answer to the question is no.

To expand a bit, the alpha, beta, and gamma lines are Mesan categories (or Alignment) into which they grouped the results of their own modifications.

Not all modifying has been Mesan. In fact there was gene modifying going on before Leonard Detweiller happened by and got himself in a huff and went off to Mesa.

Both the Meyerdahl and the Winton mods fall into that category, iirc. Honor is the direct descendant of immigrants who immigrated from Meyerdahl to Sphinx.

Usually the best sources for this sort of info is in the books. The YA series tells the story of Stephanie Harrington and Lyonheart. A delightful read.

Also, RFC has recently commented on this in another thread on the forum.

Don

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To further expand this, The Beowulf Life Code was developed in the aftermath of Earth's Final War around 950 PD. About 500 years later, Leonard Detweiler was fed up with the restrictions of the code, founding the MAlign around ~1450 PD.

The Harringtons came to Manticore in 1517 PD from Meyerdahl. They had the First Wave Meyerdahl gene modification. (Specifically Meyerdahl-Beta, as there were 4 modifications).

That modification was done on the first wave in ~500 PD. As such the genie mods on the Harrington Clan are older than the League, and even before it was known that Manticore had planets.

As to a later marry in. It's possible but unlikely. Stephanie Harrington adopted Lionheart/Climbs Quickly within a year of arriving on Manticore. Stephanie is the major force behind Treecat rights, and stops several researches into Treecats

After that, the Harrington Clan had a long history with Treecats, and have the highest adoption rate.

Since the cats can sense human intent, a long term sinister plan to take over the clan is unlikely.

Yep. Thanks for posting the details.

All things as possible, but some things are so completely unlikely that they really can't be posited seriously. This is one of them.

Don

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saber964 wrote:Doubtful at best. When they could've been seeded as a MAling spy the SKM was a galactic backwater it's only been in the last century or so that the SKM has risen to prominence. It would be the RW equivalent of what Japan did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

The idea that somehow a Harrington was a MAlign agent is more a "wouldn't this be fun" thing than anything that would really happen.

Honor's father was impressive but not wildly so, in a galactic sense. And there were always treecats around if someone wanted to play games with him.

Remember that even though MAlign agents were generally genies, most genies had nothing to do with MAlign.

Actually, by today's standards almost everyone was a genie in the sense that most genetic diseases had been ended...which clearly required genetic engineering. "Genies" was generally used to define extreme cases.

Speaking of potentially lost alpha lines, no one knows a thing about Queeen Berry's family history, including Queen Berry!

biochem wrote:Speaking of potentially lost alpha lines, no one knows a thing about Queeen Berry's family history, including Queen Berry!

I am quite fond of Berry but apart from being very sane, no evidence has been presented of her having alpha line sort of brilliance... but then, maybe there wouldn't be, would there...

Don

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Considering how closely the Bright Water Clan has watched Death Fang Bane Clan over the centuries I find that kind of penetration in the Harrington line highly unlikely.

BrightSoul wrote:Considering how closely the Bright Water Clan has watched Death Fang Bane Clan over the centuries I find that kind of penetration in the Harrington line highly unlikely.

That really doesn't settle it if the individual who was alpha line wasn't aware or wasn't committed to that. The cats sense emotional reactions and can read when people are being truthful or not. They can sense both good and ill intent. But get beyond that and they can't help. There is nothing about being alpha line that is in and of itself detectable to the cats.

Don

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n7axw wrote:

BrightSoul wrote:Considering how closely the Bright Water Clan has watched Death Fang Bane Clan over the centuries I find that kind of penetration in the Harrington line highly unlikely.

That really doesn't settle it if the individual who was alpha line wasn't aware or wasn't committed to that. The cats sense emotional reactions and can read when people are being truthful or not. They can sense both good and ill intent. But get beyond that and they can't help. There is nothing about being alpha line that is in and of itself detectable to the cats.

Don

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If they were a sleeper line then they were aware. If they aren’t aware then they are unlikely to suddenly join the MAlign and not a threat. There would have to be something compelling to bring them over to the detweiler plan.

This is an exercise in mental masturbation nothing more. If you’re looking for sleeper agents then they’d have to be aware they were or have some compelling reason to rejoin if unaware. Without one or the other it is irrelevant.