Out of order snippet? WHAT out of order snippet?

kzt wrote:I think that most of those bombs would not have gone off if they had more time.

Some would have to destroy places where physical evidence should be but wouldn't be. Buildings containing computer files that would not show that people worked there(SoV p648), destroying other evidence, or lack of.

As an aside, There is no textev. that O'Hanrahan, despite being an Alpha line (Which no one who is not an alpha or possibly a beta knows), even knows about the Onion. Jules Charteris for one, Zach McBrydes parents and siblings for others.

I would wonder why 10th Fleet hit totally random targets all around the planet and at the LaGrange Point simultaneously and the bombs were different sizes.

runsforcelery wrote:

Castenea wrote:I will just ask how is the onion going to besmirch the credibility of the Mesan officers who will be able to truthfully say, I was on the bridge/CIC and I never saw any missile traces?

Or, having surrendered their ships and been evacuated to the surface of the planet, they aren't on the bridge/CIC in question?

Actually, I'm a bit surprised that no one's suggested the most telling evidence of all that they weren't delivered from Tenth Fleet.

Don't expect me to tell you what it is, of course!

Well, I would expect missiles entering an atmosphere to generate quite severe hypersonic shockwaves together with incandescent plasma trails which would temporarily blind people looking at them.

Also, if the bombs where buried the destruction pattern would be completely different from airbursts or impact detonations.

MaxxQ wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Or, having surrendered their ships and been evacuated to the surface of the planet, they aren't on the bridge/CIC in question?

Actually, I'm a bit surprised that no one's suggested the most telling evidence of all that they weren't delivered from Tenth Fleet.

Don't expect me to tell you what it is, of course!

I honestly have no inside track on this information (meant more towards other forum goers and NOT RFC), despite my BuNine affiliation, but I'm just going to hazard a guess and say some really good evidence is that there are no weapons expenditures from Mike's ships. Check the magazines against the manifest - full when they left? Check. Full now? Check.

Also, do the recorded yields of the explosions on Mesa correspond to those of any of the missiles under Mike's control?
.

Peter2 wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:...but I'm just going to hazard a guess and say some really good evidence is that there are no weapons expenditures from Mike's ships. Check the magazines against the manifest - full when they left? Check. Full now? Check.

Also, do the recorded yields of the explosions on Mesa correspond to those of any of the missiles under Mike's control?
.

You guys are trying to confuse the muckrakers with facts. Just as just about everyone reporting or blogging about Puerto Rico is doom-saying about the Guajataca dam failing when it is in no danger of collapsing and not even overtopping the emergency spillway. No amount of facts or video evidence will convince them that the dam is not going to collapse and destroy western civilization.

The Dilbert comic strip for the last week has demonstrated the problem of battling rumors with facts:


https://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/dilbert/s-2000612

Manticore and the GA are in much the same position; anything they say will be dismissed as "yet another lie."

Weird Harold wrote:
You guys are trying to confuse the muckrakers with facts. Just as just about everyone reporting or blogging about Puerto Rico is doom-saying about the Guajataca dam failing when it is in no danger of collapsing and not even overtopping the emergency spillway. No amount of facts or video evidence will convince them that the dam is not going to collapse and destroy western civilization.

The Dilbert comic strip for the last week has demonstrated the problem of battling rumors with facts:


https://www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/dilbert/s-2000612

Manticore and the GA are in much the same position; anything they say will be dismissed as "yet another lie."

I love it!

Don

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Joat42 wrote:Well, I would expect missiles entering an atmosphere to generate quite severe hypersonic shockwaves together with incandescent plasma trails which would temporarily blind people looking at them.

Also, if the bombs where buried the destruction pattern would be completely different from airbursts or impact detonations.

Those Manties are doing all sorts of things that aren't possible. FLTL comms, FTL firecontrol, multi-drive missiles,. ships accelerating 50% faster than they should, etc. who is to say they don't have transporters or super stealthed insertion methods.

runsforcelery wrote:The only “foolish” thing Albrecht did (note that I am not commenting on the morality of his actions) was to insist that he wasn’t leaving until the last of the second-tier evacuees were out of the system, and he did that because he felt a genuine sense of responsibility and he already knew a lot of “his people” who’d thought they were getting out were going to die, instead.

Here I have a major disagreement. Houdini was only a useful plan when it was completely invisible. It shouldn't have been an expedited Houdini, they should simply have loaded everyone they planned to evacuate onto ships and left. Stealth gains them basically nothing.

If they openly leave people will know there's something more out there but that's it. However, what's left behind still is enough to tell them there's something more out there. Also, the blowing up of the people and evidence again clearly shows that someone is covering their tracks.

Expedited Houdini only makes sense as a case of target fixation.

kzt wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:I honestly have no inside track on this information (meant more towards other forum goers and NOT RFC), despite my BuNine affiliation, but I'm just going to hazard a guess and say some really good evidence is that there are no weapons expenditures from Mike's ships. Check the magazines against the manifest - full when they left? Check. Full now? Check.

Well, of course the Manties say they didn't shoot any missiles. I'm sure we can trust them to only tell the truth. Oh, and it's funny how missiles pods don't fit in magazines...

You get someone independent to verify numbers in the magazines. Someone with a sterling reputation for honesty. All they need to do is be able to count, and see if there are any empty spaces. Yes, there are drawbacks, but the only person that knows that the reputation for honesty is a farce is the person in question.

As for pods, how did they get there? No power cords or velcro, remember? If they're from colliers or podnoughts, then my original point remains.

Peter2 wrote:Also, do the recorded yields of the explosions on Mesa correspond to those of any of the missiles under Mike's control?
.

Meh... doesn't matter. There is such a thing as "dial-a-yield". I should know - I've dealt with them. Now whether the manty warheads have that capability or not, I don't know, but to find out, someone independent - with knowledge of weapons design - would need to inspect the warheads. Think the manties are going to let anyone outside the RMN have that close of a look at their tech?

Loren Pechtel wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:The only “foolish” thing Albrecht did (note that I am not commenting on the morality of his actions) was to insist that he wasn’t leaving until the last of the second-tier evacuees were out of the system, and he did that because he felt a genuine sense of responsibility and he already knew a lot of “his people” who’d thought they were getting out were going to die, instead.

Here I have a major disagreement. Houdini was only a useful plan when it was completely invisible. It shouldn't have been an expedited Houdini, they should simply have loaded everyone they planned to evacuate onto ships and left. Stealth gains them basically nothing.

If they openly leave people will know there's something more out there but that's it. However, what's left behind still is enough to tell them there's something more out there. Also, the blowing up of the people and evidence again clearly shows that someone is covering their tracks.

Expedited Houdini only makes sense as a case of target fixation.

Wait and see. The physical footprints had to be eliminated. The original Houdini would have done that much more gradually and quietly, with exactly the sort of stealthiness you're talking about. Unfortunately, they ran out of time and had to do a quick-and-dirty version. Their biggest concern at this point isn't "Gosh, will any of this make the Sollies believe in us:" it's denying evidence and breadcrumbs to adversaries they know absolutely do believe they exist already. What the League ultimately believes is important: denying the GA hard evidence it can show others and/or a map to Darius or the Renaissance Factor is vital. They've taken steps to retain as much plausible deniability as possible, and they can take comfort in the fact that the vast majority of Sollies wouldn't believe they exist if St. Peter himself whispered it in their ears. But at this particular m o ment, butmaintaining Solarian skepticism is hugely secondary to other considerations.