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lyonheart wrote:Hello RunsForCelery!

I assumed the Shrike tractors had only a couple because they were mass/space limited so that they couldn't carry the masses some fans suggested, while coast guard type LAC's would have more tractor capability as part of their job description, so the old LAC's of Nuncio could tow the Emerald Dawn to Pontifex rather easily.

My ball park figure for a RMN ten Mk-23 missile pod with the on-board fusion reaction is 2000 tons or less, while RHN 16 missile pods are nearer 3000 tons, though that's never been baldly stated, IIRC.

My concern regarding tractoring pods was the mass ratio, forex from Monica, 40 for a Sag-C was about a sixth, the SK's a bit less, but the Chanson class with ten pods was near a quarter, the light cruisers with their 15 between 20-22%, and while the SD's in AAC at Manticore tractoring 580 was only 13-14.5% of 8-8.5 Mt, that's still a lots of mass to manage.

Anyone else remember Bugs Bunny's "a whole mess of Messerschmidt's!"?

Still, towing something 30 times the Katana's mass is very impressive given the previous implied limits, though being of the latest type and without tugs on-board, possibly for that very reason, if towing did become necessary.

But I loved the story [GREAT!], and if someone as good as Tamaguchi could be so seemingly easily trapped, who else has a chance?

If there were time or space for it, I'd love to see some of the smarter known SLN POW's [FF of course] discussing just how much deeper the hole they're in is, given how ignorant they still are.

L

runsforcelery wrote:

munroburton wrote:quote="Duckk"And I don’t recall off the top of my head – not saying there wasn’t one, just that I don’t recall it — an instance in which a Shrike towed 2,000,000 tons of pods at 700 gravities. A Shrike’s maximum acceleration rate is only about 640 gravities and 2,000,000 tons of pods would be somewhere in excess of 670. I don’t really think I’ve had anybody towing that many pods without Shannon Foraker’s donkeys. A Shrike is about 20,000-22,000 tons, and it can easily tow four or five times its own mass at moderate percentages of its maximum acceleration rate without compromising its stealth capability, so 35-40 Mark 23 pods would be easy. Considerably heavier loads could be towed (assuming sufficient tractor capacity). Can you give me textev where I have them towing numbers much greater than that, under stealth, at an acceleration higher than 400 gravities? I’m not saying that I haven’t done it; only that I don’t remember doing it and that if I did, I had committed a tactical faux pas.quote

Kzt is probably referring to the CUMV(L)s dropped by the FSVs in SoV.

"Each of the unmanned, automated vehicles had the capability to stow up to three hundred Mark 23 flatpack missile pods,"

Two LACs were with two of those things, I think. I'm confused by the arrangements myself - it mentions that those CUMVs have separate propulsion units, but doesn't explictly state they were used.

I apologize for not being clearer in that passage.

Yes, the LACs are "towing" the pods, but at only a fraction of their maximum power which is being "piggybacked" to the pod's own movement capability. They are accelerating at an even lower rate than Scotty's warships because they don't make turnover; they just go right on accelerating, which carries them passed the warships which do have to reverse acceleration. They are also positioned directly between the pods (which already have very weak impeller signatures) and the Solarians sensors, creating a shadow in which the pods can hide.

I thought that was clear from the relative positioning and velocity of the pods and the warships at the moment Scotty opens fire, but I can see where it might not have been quite as obvious as I'd thought it was.

runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor and the Renaissance Association are not associated in any way. Oh, my, of course not!

runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor's name, on the other hand, was chosen with malice aforethought, for two reasons.

quite possibly a cat wrote:RFC responded to me!

That was like 90% tongue in cheek!

runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor and the Renaissance Association are not associated in any way. Oh, my, of course not!

Thank god that the Renaissance Association and the Renaissance Factor aren't friends.

runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor's name, on the other hand, was chosen with malice aforethought, for two reasons.

Those obnoxious jerks! Oh crap, I hope you didn't think "obnoxious" applied in anyway to you. You're wonderful, keep being wonderful!

On the Grayson stuff: Generally evolution does a pretty good job of cleaning up traits that cause spontaneous abortions. It occurs to me that Allison might not go into complicated details that weren't really needed. In fact, it probably should have occurred to me a lot sooner since I did something similar by invoking "weirdness" when I didn't want to go into more detail! Now I just feel stupid.

Well, now my medicine cabinet only has "People acting like realistic humans."

P.S. It really in incredible how well thought out this stuff is.

kzt wrote:Power cords, lack thereof. - This is really more general pod issues. I understand the plot related reasons, but this is just absurd. Particularly as you don't need to run the reactor as the ship in in zero g. Metal industrial velcro (hook and loop) would work just fine.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

kzt wrote:Power cords, lack thereof. - This is really more general pod issues. I understand the plot related reasons, but this is just absurd. Particularly as you don't need to run the reactor as the ship in in zero g. Metal industrial velcro (hook and loop) would work just fine.

Velcro would work fine to hold the pods on under main drive. It would be totally useless against holding the pods on when the attitude thrusters fire.

ldwechsler wrote: I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.

pappilon wrote:

ldwechsler wrote: I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.

Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).

ldwechsler wrote:

pappilon wrote:quote="ldwechsler" I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.

Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).

lyonheart wrote:Hi LDWechsler,

Well I don't know, Albrecht made so many mistakes, one wondered if his 'sons' were planning on removing him rather soon.

Then again, given what great parents they were, their 'sons' might want a bit more revenge that exposes the MAlign at a critical point.

Then being as flawed as their 'father', trying to cope with all the changes to the great untouchable plan, they screw it up even further, possibly causing a schism and possibly even civil war, though that's rather unlikely.

Very interesting times indeed.

L

ldwechsler wrote:

pappilon wrote:quote="ldwechsler" I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.

Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).

lyonheart wrote:I doubt the plan will change that much based on the death of Detweiler. His being on Mesa at the end was an incredible blunder, of course. And his clones might change it to something dumb as we've seen in the snippets.

But the basic plan COULD still go on. But that would assume the clones will not do much and just hide and that would be lousy for the next arc. Having Honor's kids fighting (and, of course, the children of some other characters) is one thing. Having great grandchildren do it something else.