Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"

Mamalecki wrote:It would make sense for the SLN to replace capitalship energy weapons with fire control an replace some with PDL clusters. I don't think you could replace them with CM launcher due to the fact they have no magazine space at energy weapons emplacements.

The question is the level of difficulity of the work. If you require months at a shipyard, it probably will not happen except to ships being constructed, heavily damaged, or scheduled for heavy maintenance.

I think of old style LAC'S as mentioned in honor of the Queen. We're the Masada lac have single shot box launchers and as mentioned in honor among enemies in Silesia the RMN used a improved lac with launchers similar to the new missile pods. I think a bigger issue for the sollies is we're are they going to get money to pay there Federal bills. I have a idea that would give them the cash flow to pay for new ships and weapons but approval would be hard. A temporary Federal tax passed by the assembly of 0.01% sale's tax on all non food items. In systems with population in the teens of billions this would be a huge cash flow.

Mamalecki wrote:I think a bigger issue for the sollies is we're are they going to get money to pay there Federal bills. I have a idea that would give them the cash flow to pay for new ships and weapons but approval would be hard. A temporary Federal tax passed by the assembly of 0.01% sale's tax on all non food items. In systems with population in the teens of billions this would be a huge cash flow.

And given that all members have veto powers The odds of something like that getting through the assembly is very low given how much the members are said to value their autonomy. The League's Assembly was basically designed from the outset to be almost unable to function in order to protect the autonomy of the members.

Also collecting that kind of tax would need a lot of bureaucracy that does not currently exist and would take time and money to set up, particularly given the inevitable bureaucratic infighting that would result over who would have control over it

Grashtel wrote:And given that all members have veto powers The odds of something like that getting through the assembly is very low given how much the members are said to value their autonomy. The League's Assembly was basically designed from the outset to be almost unable to function in order to protect the autonomy of the members.

Also collecting that kind of tax would need a lot of bureaucracy that does not currently exist and would take time and money to set up, particularly given the inevitable bureaucratic infighting that would result over who would have control over it

It's not impossible.

As an example, you arrest all the representatives who will vote against it before the vote occurs. Or after the vote occurs and before the next vote occurs.

If the sollies in there Beowulf verdict declare that succession is illegal then that changes the Constitution. Then run a economic emergency act with plans to subsidy build fighters to improve the economy paid for with a limited tax that is for the duration to pay for federal government expenses ( leave that part vague) and get the transtellers to help pass it with there influence and there you go

Mamalecki wrote:If the sollies in there Beowulf verdict declare that succession is illegal then that changes the Constitution. Then run a economic emergency act with plans to subsidy build fighters to improve the economy paid for with a limited tax that is for the duration to pay for federal government expenses ( leave that part vague) and get the transtellers to help pass it with there influence and there you go

Sounds like what the opposition tried on Manticore. The issue would not be easily resolved. Everyone opposed to the mandarins would be screaming. On top of that, it provides an incentive to get out of the League. Chances are, a handful of major transstellar corps would get the business. That's business as usual. Everyone else would be ticked. One reason planets stay in the League is that taxes for it are only on shipped goods. Change that and a lot of places might revolt.

Also, the tech is far enough behind that even Kingsford feels only commerce raiders would work. That means no real victories probably for years...while the taxes keep coming. And it's likely that the Grand Alliance will quickly learn where the work is being done and send fleets to destroy the work.

It's not easy to get to the top and really hard to stay there when difficult decisions have to be made. The mandarins have never really been tested.

That will change.

ldwechsler wrote:Also, the tech is far enough behind that even Kingsford feels only commerce raiders would work. That means no real victories probably for years...while the taxes keep coming. And it's likely that the Grand Alliance will quickly learn where the work is being done and send fleets to destroy the work.

No you build stuff EVERYWHERE. The objective is to use the fact that you have for more industrial potential and manpower. So everyone gets plans for new missiles and new vessels. This allows systems to build effective defensive forces and also provide vessels to the SLN, who will buy them from you if built to the specs.

And as part of this plan you also introduce the wonders of deficit financing to the SL, so they don't need to actually raise all the money they are spending.

[/quote](NOT PICKING ON YOUR POST)
No you build stuff EVERYWHERE. The objective is to use the fact that you have for more industrial potential and manpower. So everyone gets plans for new missiles and new vessels. This allows systems to build effective defensive forces and also provide vessels to the SLN, who will buy them from you if built to the specs.

And as part of this plan you also introduce the wonders of deficit financing to the SL, so they don't need to actually raise all the money they are spending.[/quote]

(1)Are we forgetting that the GA is the lesser of the SL's enemies? who knows what other little Operation Januses the MAlign is cooking up. They are already inside the SLN sabotaging BF from the inside. They want the SL to disintegrate as fast s the GA does.

(2) Build software to do ... what, exactly? Yes they have good computers with excellent processing speed. No idea what the parameters are for their software because they have never survived a battle to get info home for analysis. Crap for battle experience, even worse crap for battle simulations. WE have the advantage of third person omniscience, BF does not. Build software to handle the shown capabilities of the GA only to find out OOPS there is another 20% they held in reserve.

(3) Haven could not replicate the RMN weapons with working copies and tech manuals available, couldn't crack the miniaturization. Still can't crack the FTL (?). Bing was quoting published articles speculating that even gross FTL would require the physical size of an SD.

(4) Granted to know it exists and does work is half the battle. Barring any miraculous serendipity, making functional prototypes is years away. Weaponizing it takes longer. Potential is nothing until you feed it something. There several iterations of a dead horse laying around here, (A) SLN needs a brand new Doctrine, Not something easly created, especially with an enemy within to push it in ... less than optimal directions, or stall it entirely. (B) Until you have the doctrine you cannot design software for the hardware in the obsolete ship designs, much less in more survivable hulls which (C) you can't even design, much less build without (A) the doctrine. (D) Then you start developing munitions - DDMs MDMs pods more point defense fewer energy mounts.

5) Now you're just getting started yet how much RMN construction was cut short because new weapons systems demanded new designs? Yeah great you mobilize your potential, tool up to produce 5,000 hulls then build half the hulls only to find they are obsolete and new designs are on the way, so finish the hulls and retool for the new designs. While you are in a shooting war with the meanest fleet with the absolutely most battle hardened crews and admirals in your universe.

(6) Then you are not operating in this universe but in the universe of RFC. What the US did, the USSR did, Britain did is worthless in the face of what RFC will allow the SL to do.

(7) Deficit spending or not, Shipyards have real expenses that have to be covered Friday (wages), 30 days (overhead expenses) 90 days (raw materials).Money has to come from somewhere, and IIRC SL Treasury is looking at 15% interest on their debt. At some point they gotta get paid soon.

(8) Again IIRC the Protectorates will run far far away from the League as soon as fear of KEW bombardment and Gendarme intervention battalions disappear. The shell worlds are pissed (textev)that the Mandarins make decisions putting their economic interests behind the core worlds' interest. They won't be too far behind the Protectorates. Suddenly that great potential seems to be evaporating. Then there are the several other (3-4?)notices of Secession to deal with. Depending on how hard they respond militarily to block those worlds, the star chamber may well regret its actions against Beowulf. The Grand Mandarin Kolotosov (SP I'm sure)Said all they need is to encourage core worlds to start arming against the SLN. More potential erosion of both research potential AND manufacturing potential

kzt wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:Also, the tech is far enough behind that even Kingsford feels only commerce raiders would work. That means no real victories probably for years...while the taxes keep coming. And it's likely that the Grand Alliance will quickly learn where the work is being done and send fleets to destroy the work.

No you build stuff EVERYWHERE. The objective is to use the fact that you have for more industrial potential and manpower. So everyone gets plans for new missiles and new vessels. This allows systems to build effective defensive forces and also provide vessels to the SLN, who will buy them from you if built to the specs.

And as part of this plan you also introduce the wonders of deficit financing to the SL, so they don't need to actually raise all the money they are spending.

In order to engage in deficit spending, someone has to be willing to lend. Potential lenders sort of require the borrower to survive long enough to repay their debts. I doubt the transstellars are deaf, dumb or blind enough buy SL debt going forward. I doubt individual investors will want enough of those bonds to finance much of an improved war machine. If the SL federalllies begin to use force, even fewer entities will buy SL bonds.

Short of confiscation, the SL federal government has run out of sources of money or will very shortly.

PeterZ wrote:
In order to engage in deficit spending, someone has to be willing to lend. Potential lenders sort of require the borrower to survive long enough to repay their debts. I doubt the transstellars are deaf, dumb or blind enough buy SL debt going forward. I doubt individual investors will want enough of those bonds to finance much of an improved war machine. If the SL federalllies begin to use force, even fewer entities will buy SL bonds.

Short of confiscation, the SL federal government has run out of sources of money or will very shortly.

So who was lending money to the USSR, Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany in 1944?