Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1

Jonathan_S wrote:

munroburton wrote:[Let's use a RMN example - we know the HMS Star Knight, lead ship of the Star Knight class, was destroyed near the beginning of SVW. Had the RMN recommissioned the name, it might have been borne by a Saganami-class cruiser.

They did the same thing with HMS Gryphon and Sphinx - decommisioned the old Manticore-class SDs to provide names for two new SD classes. Then HMS Manticore SD-01 was replaced by a new Gryphon-class hull carrying the name forth. Therefore there was never a Sphinx-class named HMS Manticore.

I suspect, but obviously don't know for sure, that unless "Star Knight" was on their list of Valor which has to be kept active that they'd just let that name go fallow until well after the last Star Knight-class was retired. That avoids confusion.

There's no real issue with a ship class not having a namesake ship in commission. It's only having a ship class share a name with a ship not if that class that's confusing.

Of course we did see the old Nike recommissioned Hancock Station to free the name for the first BC(L). Though I think the RMN painted themselves into a corner allowing their BC(L) class to also be called Nike. Down the road they'll be struck between multiple conflicting traditions
A) Nike is always the most powerful BC design
B) There is always an HMS Nike
C) Ship and class names should only be the same when the ship is part of that class
D) Ships may be renamed (though rarely and it can be considered unlucky) but classes basicly never are; too confusing)

If Nike herself survives she can be retired or renamed to free the name for a next gen BC(L) to wear. But will they rename the Nike-class at the same time? Or have a new HMS Nike that's not part of the old Nike-class?

You'd think that to avoid this predictable confusion the RMN would do their best to avoid giving lead ships, and hence classes, names off the list of valor. And doubly so for Nike which has that for their traditional of usually being the most powerful BC. (Though I note that the name never got grabbed for a BC(P) or a later flight of Reliant - so most powerful isn't an absolute tradition.
I'd guess in Nike's case using that name for the single authorized BC(L) was s political ploy to get High Ridge's government to allow her to be built and deployed And that's more important that naming confusion 10 years down the line.

munroburton wrote:However, it's clear the RMN doesn't mind renaming entire classes when it becomes necessary. Like how they redesignated the old Manticore-class BBs as Thorsten-class.

Theemile wrote:OK, 2 points to be mentioned to David.

1) Are Captain Clayton and Commander Clayton married? There is a mild inference, but it is not specified enough.

2) IEWPs (Independent Energy Weapons Platforms) are not a new thing in the Honorverse. Honor used one that was part of the defenses at Hades to destroy a BC and mangle the Farnesse. I had thought they were part of the junction defenses, but they are not mentioned in OBS.

So why are they being discussed like they are a new idea? The only thing offered here is a BETTER IEWP than Manticore could produce before.


And two side thoughts.

Well, this puts to bed the old argument about whether a Nike class BC could survive in Energy range of a Scientist SD. If the Grasers are good enough to wow the Manties, and mounted in such numbers, A Nike has no business being in range of an SLN SD.

Also, if the Beowulf SDF was armed with SL tech, why was any of the SLN technical levels not known to Beowulf? And thus, Manticore intel?

and finally...

All in all, it does make you wonder how bad-ass Manty ships will be when they are refitted with the tech learned for the Havenites and Andermani, and plundered form the SLN.

snip

“Admiral Foraker does have a tendency to think outside the box,” Honor acknowledged with a smile. “In this case, though, what she’s suggested is basically an array of remotely deployed energy weapons. Capital ship-sized weapons, as a matter of fact. She’s thinking something like Moriarty, not Mycroft. In fact, she’s already worked out the quickest way to run up a remote platform tied into the central fire control system of a standard terminus fort.”


“I thought that was what the minefields we already have were for, My Lady.”

“Oh, they are! But those are basically one-shot, bomb-pumped platforms. She’s talking about feeding these things with broadcast power for the plasma capacitors. If her numbers hold up, they’d be good for at least five or six full-power shots each before the platforms had to shut down until the maintenance crews could recharge the capacitor reservoirs. So if these Solly grasers are as good as Phil seems to be suggesting, and given the fact that a Joseph Buckley-class SD mounts — what? sixty-four? sixty-five? — grasers, stripping a couple of hundred of them could let us build a really nasty defensive array, don’t you think?”

snip

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:OK, 2 points to be mentioned to David.

1) Are Captain Clayton and Commander Clayton married? There is a mild inference, but it is not specified enough.

2) IEWPs (Independent Energy Weapons Platforms) are not a new thing in the Honorverse. Honor used one that was part of the defenses at Hades to destroy a BC and mangle the Farnesse. I had thought they were part of the junction defenses, but they are not mentioned in OBS.

So why are they being discussed like they are a new idea? The only thing offered here is a BETTER IEWP than Manticore could produce before.


And two side thoughts.

Well, this puts to bed the old argument about whether a Nike class BC could survive in Energy range of a Scientist SD. If the Grasers are good enough to wow the Manties, and mounted in such numbers, A Nike has no business being in range of an SLN SD.

Also, if the Beowulf SDF was armed with SL tech, why was any of the SLN technical levels not known to Beowulf? And thus, Manticore intel?

and finally...

All in all, it does make you wonder how bad-ass Manty ships will be when they are refitted with the tech learned for the Havenites and Andermani, and plundered form the SLN.

Clayton pretty much asked the same thing about the platforms Theemile. Honor explained that these are more powerful, capital ship comparable, and more practical, delivering a 4-5 shot capacity instead of a single shot. And configured in an array. Ouch!...

snip

“Admiral Foraker does have a tendency to think outside the box,” Honor acknowledged with a smile. “In this case, though, what she’s suggested is basically an array of remotely deployed energy weapons. Capital ship-sized weapons, as a matter of fact. She’s thinking something like Moriarty, not Mycroft. In fact, she’s already worked out the quickest way to run up a remote platform tied into the central fire control system of a standard terminus fort.”


“I thought that was what the minefields we already have were for, My Lady.”

“Oh, they are! But those are basically one-shot, bomb-pumped platforms. She’s talking about feeding these things with broadcast power for the plasma capacitors. If her numbers hold up, they’d be good for at least five or six full-power shots each before the platforms had to shut down until the maintenance crews could recharge the capacitor reservoirs. So if these Solly grasers are as good as Phil seems to be suggesting, and given the fact that a Joseph Buckley-class SD mounts — what? sixty-four? sixty-five? — grasers, stripping a couple of hundred of them could let us build a really nasty defensive array, don’t you think?”

snip

Theemile wrote:
ok, you are making my point - Why is Foraker thinking outside the box? This is an old, standard idea of standard defensive kit... just an updated, cheap, bad-ass version of it....

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:OK, 2 points to be mentioned to David.

1) Are Captain Clayton and Commander Clayton married? There is a mild inference, but it is not specified enough.

2) IEWPs (Independent Energy Weapons Platforms) are not a new thing in the Honorverse. Honor used one that was part of the defenses at Hades to destroy a BC and mangle the Farnesse. I had thought they were part of the junction defenses, but they are not mentioned in OBS.

So why are they being discussed like they are a new idea? The only thing offered here is a BETTER IEWP than Manticore could produce before.


And two side thoughts.

Well, this puts to bed the old argument about whether a Nike class BC could survive in Energy range of a Scientist SD. If the Grasers are good enough to wow the Manties, and mounted in such numbers, A Nike has no business being in range of an SLN SD.

Also, if the Beowulf SDF was armed with SL tech, why was any of the SLN technical levels not known to Beowulf? And thus, Manticore intel?

and finally...

All in all, it does make you wonder how bad-ass Manty ships will be when they are refitted with the tech learned for the Havenites and Andermani, and plundered form the SLN.

Clayton pretty much asked the same thing about the platforms Theemile. Honor explained that these are more powerful, capital ship comparable, and more practical, delivering a 4-5 shot capacity instead of a single shot. And configured in an array. Ouch!...

snip

“Admiral Foraker does have a tendency to think outside the box,” Honor acknowledged with a smile. “In this case, though, what she’s suggested is basically an array of remotely deployed energy weapons. Capital ship-sized weapons, as a matter of fact. She’s thinking something like Moriarty, not Mycroft. In fact, she’s already worked out the quickest way to run up a remote platform tied into the central fire control system of a standard terminus fort.”


“I thought that was what the minefields we already have were for, My Lady.”

“Oh, they are! But those are basically one-shot, bomb-pumped platforms. She’s talking about feeding these things with broadcast power for the plasma capacitors. If her numbers hold up, they’d be good for at least five or six full-power shots each before the platforms had to shut down until the maintenance crews could recharge the capacitor reservoirs. So if these Solly grasers are as good as Phil seems to be suggesting, and given the fact that a Joseph Buckley-class SD mounts — what? sixty-four? sixty-five? — grasers, stripping a couple of hundred of them could let us build a really nasty defensive array, don’t you think?”

snip

Theemile wrote:ok, you are making my point - Why is Foraker thinking outside the box? This is an old, standard idea of standard defensive kit... just an updated, cheap, bad-ass version of it....

cthia wrote:

snip

“Admiral Foraker does have a tendency to think outside the box,” Honor acknowledged with a smile. “In this case, though, what she’s suggested is basically an array of remotely deployed energy weapons. Capital ship-sized weapons, as a matter of fact. She’s thinking something like Moriarty, not Mycroft. In fact, she’s already worked out the quickest way to run up a remote platform tied into the central fire control system of a standard terminus fort.”


“I thought that was what the minefields we already have were for, My Lady.”

“Oh, they are! But those are basically one-shot, bomb-pumped platforms. She’s talking about feeding these things with broadcast power for the plasma capacitors. If her numbers hold up, they’d be good for at least five or six full-power shots each before the platforms had to shut down until the maintenance crews could recharge the capacitor reservoirs. So if these Solly grasers are as good as Phil seems to be suggesting, and given the fact that a Joseph Buckley-class SD mounts — what? sixty-four? sixty-five? — grasers, stripping a couple of hundred of them could let us build a really nasty defensive array, don’t you think?”

snip

Theemile wrote:ok, you are making my point - Why is Foraker thinking outside the box? This is an old, standard idea of standard defensive kit... just an updated, cheap, bad-ass version of it....

Theemile wrote:ok, you are making my point - Why is Foraker thinking outside the box? This is an old, standard idea of standard defensive kit... just an updated, cheap, bad-ass version of it....