GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions

fallsfromtrees wrote:...Since RFC controls the judiciary ...

No we can make an educated guess how the Grayson court would rule. Given the corruption endemic in the SL, there is no way to predict how Solarian courts would rule.[/quote]

You missed the important part of the point. How is RFC going to rule on the point.

It is also worth noting that the Mandarins are avoiding a legal test of their stewardship of the League. If they were certain of the result -- eg have the Judiciary wrapped up tight -- they'd be pushing for a legal ruling in their favor.

Are their Solarian courts dealing with interstellar issues or are those issues simply a matter for the bureaucracy to rule on? For all we know the courts with jurisdiction over federal laws are locally appointed to administer to their region. Any legalities involving international law within the SL appear to be addressed with agency regulations/rulings, not judicial ones. If I recall correctly Manticoran jurisprudence regarding interstellar issues is the gold standard in the galaxy. That makes sense if the SL doesn't have a robust legal system dealing with interstellar law.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:The procedural step is but an issue that might be able to be circumvented by precedence. No one has ever had the gorilla's balls, therefore the gorilla's [C c]onstitution in its hands. Precedence and spirit of the Constitution together are powerful concepts.

I think the example of the "Mayhew Restoration" in Grayson applies here. The Keys argued that centuries of precedence over-ruled the written Constitution; the Courts disagreed with them.

The League is in a similar situation where the Mandarins can claim precedence (or lack of precedence) over-rules the Constitution. Since RFC controls the judiciary in the Honorverse, we can make an educated guess at what the Solarian courts will rule.

That's an interesting comparison, but perhaps for a different reason.

The Mayhew Restoration wasn't a return to Grayson's original constitutional arrangements(or possibly lack of) - it was a reassertion of the constitution as written after Grayson's Civil War, which took fourteen years to resolve and when Benjamin the Great was at the apex of his personal power and authority.

A "Solarian Restoration" right now would involve President Yeou Kun Chol, his cabinet of sinecures and the legislature reasserting any powers they have over the bureaucracy. Unfortunately, that isn't where the League is right now - they're at the beginning of a civil war due to the illegality of their actual war with Manticore/the GA.

The Mandarins' authority is dropping like a rock. I think it's far more likely there will eventually be attempts to remove them. Possibly a Restoration as above, a "Colonels' coup" or most likely in my opinion, Mesan assassins. By then it will be too late and will simply add to the confusion.

munroburton wrote:The Mandarins' authority is dropping like a rock. I think it's far more likely there will eventually be attempts to remove them. Possibly a Restoration as above, a "Colonels' coup" or most likely in my opinion, Mesan assassins. By then it will be too late and will simply add to the confusion.

I could easily see a SL marine led coup that essentially shoots the top 2-3 tiers of the bureaucracy as being hopeless corrupt and puts someone in place who intends to fix things. This would likely not be good for the SEM...

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:The procedural step is but an issue that might be able to be circumvented by precedence. No one has ever had the gorilla's balls, therefore the gorilla's [C c]onstitution in its hands. Precedence and spirit of the Constitution together are powerful concepts.

I think the example of the "Mayhew Restoration" in Grayson applies here. The Keys argued that centuries of precedence over-ruled the written Constitution; the Courts disagreed with them.

The League is in a similar situation where the Mandarins can claim precedence (or lack of precedence) over-rules the Constitution. Since RFC controls the judiciary in the Honorverse, we can make an educated guess at what the Solarian courts will rule.

fallsfromtrees wrote:No we can make an educated guess how the Grayson court would rule. Given the corruption endemic in the SL, there is no way to predict how Solarian courts would rule.

Absolutely fallsfromtrees, my point exactly. No one can know how adept the Mandarins have become at perverting the League's Constitution. I'm willing to bet that selective perversion has become like commonplace over the centuries.

Playing the authorial fiat card or its smaller joker suggests fear? LOL Any more of those cards you're saving in the corner of your hand just in case? LOL

Admittedly, an interesting comparison. Kudos.


At any rate, you are implying similarities between the two governments and Constitutions. Questionable strategy on your part. The two governments, nor their [C c]onstitutions are anything alike. Besides, that isn't quite how I remember things anyway. PBIX, istr, stated his need to act immediately while the Keys were reeling and off-balance.

All-in-all, it certainly will be interesting how the author fiats or finesses it all in the next installment. But I believe I've been successful at showing the need to pause, look both ways, and proceed with caution.

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:The Mandarins' authority is dropping like a rock. I think it's far more likely there will eventually be attempts to remove them. Possibly a Restoration as above, a "Colonels' coup" or most likely in my opinion, Mesan assassins. By then it will be too late and will simply add to the confusion.

I could easily see a SL marine led coup that essentially shoots the top 2-3 tiers of the bureaucracy as being hopeless corrupt and puts someone in place who intends to fix things. This would likely not be good for the SEM...

LOL

Something I've suggested eons ago. The Mandarins are indirectly on the Manties side. Mesan assassins targeting the Mandarins would be a plot nicety. Though I rather doubt just one more book could adequately deal with such a plot hand.

kzt wrote:

munroburton wrote:The Mandarins' authority is dropping like a rock. I think it's far more likely there will eventually be attempts to remove them. Possibly a Restoration as above, a "Colonels' coup" or most likely in my opinion, Mesan assassins. By then it will be too late and will simply add to the confusion.

I could easily see a SL marine led coup that essentially shoots the top 2-3 tiers of the bureaucracy as being hopeless corrupt and puts someone in place who intends to fix things. This would likely not be good for the SEM...

But how many layers down in the SLN/SLMC/SLG command structure do you have to chop until you get to good wood? We've seen how corrupt the senior leadership is. Is there anybody trustworthy over O-6 equivalent?

Fox2! wrote:

kzt wrote:[
I could easily see a SL marine led coup that essentially shoots the top 2-3 tiers of the bureaucracy as being hopeless corrupt and puts someone in place who intends to fix things. This would likely not be good for the SEM...

But how many layers down in the SLN/SLMC/SLG command structure do you have to chop until you get to good wood? We've seen how corrupt the senior leadership is. Is there anybody trustworthy over O-6 equivalent?

A few shootings, like Admiral Byng's, might "encourage the others" to straighten up and "do their utmost."

Fox2! wrote:

Fox2! wrote:But how many layers down in the SLN/SLMC/SLG command structure do you have to chop until you get to good wood? We've seen how corrupt the senior leadership is. Is there anybody trustworthy over O-6 equivalent?

A few shootings, like Admiral Byng's, might "encourage the others" to straighten up and "do their utmost."

Yup. Exemplary executions of the most obviously guilty and/or obstructive and encouragement for others not so clearly guilty to take immediate retirement might go a long way.

Fox2! wrote:

Fox2! wrote:But how many layers down in the SLN/SLMC/SLG command structure do you have to chop until you get to good wood? We've seen how corrupt the senior leadership is. Is there anybody trustworthy over O-6 equivalent?

A few shootings, like Admiral Byng's, might "encourage the others" to straighten up and "do their utmost."

kzt wrote:Yup. Exemplary executions of the most obviously guilty and/or obstructive and encouragement for others not so clearly guilty to take immediate retirement might go a long way.

IOW, take a page out of Theisman's playbook?

Greetings fellow Solarians, lend me your ears. It is better to shoot the bastards in question, than to shed tears. Simply...

"Goodbye, Citizen Mandarins."

LOL